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Topic: Li'l Izzy Demonstration: with vs without... |
Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 10:26 am |
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I prefer the tone of the second sample. I will vote 2..
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Emmons PP, Mullen G2 and Discovery |
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Richard Keller
From:
Deer Creek, Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 10:56 am
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Jim the second sample sounded much clearer. I say that is the lil izzy.
Great playing by the way. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 1:07 pm
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Some people have written to me asking about my amp settings; here they are:
On the Roland 80XL (JC Clean), my EQ settings are bass: 5 o'clock (almost completely on); middle: 2 o'clock; treble and presence both at noon.
The reverb and delay are both built-in to the amp. Plate reverb at exactly 3 o'clock and delay at 11 o'clock with the speed double-tapped as fast as I can make it.
I'll also mention that I only like the sound of the 80XL for my steel when I'm using a 15" extension speaker; otherwise I don't care for it: too thin and not enough body for my taste, especially on C6.
Soon, I'll let you all know which sample was the one with the L'il Izzy but I'm gonna go double-check it myself before I say anything! 
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Last edited by Jim Cohen on 9 Aug 2017 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 1:08 pm
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Doug Beaumier wrote
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Well, so far I'm the only one to vote for #1. Either I'm a genius or a total loser!  |
I'm going to go with Doug so he doesn't feel isolated. I listened through my iPhone so may not be the quality from other devices. But my choice would be the first clip that has the Izzy. I hear more clarity and punch for lack of better description. This is an excellent example of how tone is subjective and we all hear differently. Thanks, Jim, for uploading this and making the forum an enjoyable place. Excellent playing and tone to say the least on both clips!
Dave |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 1:35 pm The Answer!
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Well, this has been an interesting experience for me!
The short answer is that the L'il Izzy is on sample #2, as most of you correctly guessed. (Congratulations!)
HOWEVER! As I listen to the two clips online, I much prefer the sound of sample #1, which sounds fuller and richer to my ears, with more vibrancy (more pleasant overtones); that, of course, is the one without the Izzy!
HOWEVER (again)! I also know that, in person, in the room, sitting at the guitar, next to the amp, I much prefer the sound of my guitar/rig WITH the Izzy in place.
So, how did I get turned around? Is this an artefact of the iPad Mini recording, or the MS Movie Maker software (though I did save the file using the highest resolution), or the compression in uploading to YouTube, or what?
I didn't expect to end up confused after this little experiment! Oh, well, as they say, YMMV! 
Thanks for playing along in any case! 
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 1:49 pm
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David, thanks! I need all the support I can get. 
Jim, I think I chose based on which sound I liked more... #1. I've never played through a Lil Izzy, so I'm not sure what it does, but I do like the sound of #1 a little more. Like you said, richer, more pleasant overtones.
As far as the sound we hear as we play vs. the sound heard by others or the sound recorded and played back... it's all very subjective and there are so many variables. I do know that I play better when I'm happy with my tone (as I play), I think we all do. But sometimes that sound does not record as we heard it live, especially when mixed with other instruments. It's a deep subject and a mystery to me!
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 3:54 pm
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Some additional thoughts on the Li'l Izzy - I've noticed very little difference if any using the Izzy or not when using Alumitone pickups - I know their design is not like other pickups, so maybe that is why. I also bought some George L cables a while back, and I think the (presumably) better cables seemed to reduce the impact of the Li'l Izzy. Jim, have you ever tried putting the Izzy after the volume pedal rather than at the guitar? Some say this is a good approach if you use a pot pedal, as you say you do.
I would say, if you prefer the brighter, punchier tone to your steel (the "West Coast" sound), and don't feel like you have it, try a Li'l Izzy. The Izzy impacts higher-pitch tones as this is what the cables and volume pots affect.
One other idea that Craig suggest: take your shortest (decent quality) cable and plug in your amp straight from the guitar, no pedal, and play some. Then plug in a long cable, and a pot pedal if you use one, leaving the amp right next to you. Play again. The difference is what the volume pot and the longer cables are losing from your guitar. If you like it better before with the short cable, buy a Li'l Izzy or other buffer.
And Jim - thanks for the test! I always enjoy these blind tests.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 4:32 pm
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I guess I'm the only one who voted for B.
A did sound great, though. |
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Roger Dillingham
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 4:53 pm L'il Izzy or Not
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| I have a L'il Izzy and have been using it almost exclusively now for several years. If I'm wrong I will have egg all over my face, but I can say from the increased string separation and brightness across the neck that WITHOUT A DOUBT, the #2 Sample was WITH the addition of L'il Izzy. Mr. Craig Baker was a great guy, a lover of steel guitar, and quite a "genious" when it came to electronics, IMHO! Most importantly, Mr. Baker was a wonderful person and had a unique kindness towards all whom he had contact with! He will be/is missed in this world. Roger |
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Roger Dillingham
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 5:04 pm L'il Izzy or Not
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| Well now I know the answer after I looked above and saw Jim's answer several posts before mine. So, I still have egg on my face! But at least, I was correct! I can hardly play without including the Izzy in my chain in most situations. The only way I don't see a significant improvement to my tone is when I run from my steel directly to a SMS Black Box thru a Hilton volume pedal and then directly to a Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp. My take is that there are enough buffers in the signal chain that by the time the signal has hit that many tubes and the tone stack in the Boogie, there's not much else to be done. I am definitely not an electronics whiz, but I do know what good tone sounds like (I think). Roger |
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David Rupert
From:
Mesa, Arizona (via Mahopac, NY & Missouri).
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 11:42 pm
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I'm voting #2. Both sound great though.
I intend to buy a Lil' Izzy, at some point not too far off.
Around how much do they usually cost used? Not sure if they are still making them or not?
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David "DJ" Rupert
"Music. Without it, life itself...would be impossible."
ZumSteel - Encoreâ„¢ S-10 / 3p x 5k (Two-Tone; Red & Black Top).
Rolandâ„¢ Cube 80x Amp, Hilton Volume Pedal, TC Electronicsâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, TC Electronicsâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive, Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner, D2F Covers. Evans JE-300 Amp. (in the not too distant future).
Most Importantly: the musicians hands...& soul.
http://www.bandmix.com/pedal-steel-75/ |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 3:25 am
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| I intend to buy a Lil' Izzy, at some point not too far off. |
Unfortunately, the builder, maker and father of the Li'l Izzy, Craig Baker, passed away, and so did the Li'l Izzy... 
He was a great friend to steel players. I won't sell mine, even if I quit using it. I'll keep it to remember him.
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I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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David Rupert
From:
Mesa, Arizona (via Mahopac, NY & Missouri).
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 7:15 am
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| Scott Duckworth wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I intend to buy a Lil' Izzy, at some point not too far off. |
Unfortunately, the builder, maker and father of the Li'l Izzy, Craig Baker, passed away, and so did the Li'l Izzy...
He was a great friend to steel players. I won't sell mine, even if I quit using it. I'll keep it to remember him. |
Sorry to hear of Craig's passing. I wasn't quite sure if the company was still around or not. Hopefully I'll be able to find one used at some point!? I've always heard only great things about the Lil' Izzy.
I know what you mean, about not parting with something of sentimental value. I still have packs of strings...& some other things, that Tom Palmer sent to me, a few years ago. I highly doubt I'll ever use them, but I'm keeping them...as it's a reminder of my friendship with him. I still have my 2 Emmons tone bars, from the mid 70's...& they definitely have sentimental value as well. I rarely ever use them now, since buying my BJS bar, around 1995. Can't beat BJS tone bars!
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David "DJ" Rupert
"Music. Without it, life itself...would be impossible."
ZumSteel - Encoreâ„¢ S-10 / 3p x 5k (Two-Tone; Red & Black Top).
Rolandâ„¢ Cube 80x Amp, Hilton Volume Pedal, TC Electronicsâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, TC Electronicsâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive, Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner, D2F Covers. Evans JE-300 Amp. (in the not too distant future).
Most Importantly: the musicians hands...& soul.
http://www.bandmix.com/pedal-steel-75/ |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 8:30 am
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Much preferred the tone without the Izzy. I could hear straight away that the second clip had a much brighter and more metallic tone than the first one. I tried Buck Reid's Izzy with my own guitar when I was at his home one time, and it wasn't for me I'm afraid. Way too thin on the top end.
Jim - I'm interested in your comment about the 12" speaker in the 80XL. I find that it has a very full tonal range, and I just use the amp on its own when doing small pubs and bars. Your settings are similar to those that I use, but I actually back off the presence control to 9 o'clock. I have two 80XL's, and they are fantastic value for money. Very nice playing by the way.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 10:03 am
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Right or wrong, #2 had a tighter tone. Better string separation.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Boss 59 Fender pedal for preamp, NDR-5 Atlantic Delay & Reverb, two Quilter 201 amps, 2- 12" Eminence EPS-12C speakers, ShoBud Pedal, 1949 Epiphone D-8. Revelation preamp into a Crown XLS 1002 power amp. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 11:37 am
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Hi Jim , knowing the creature from Mr Baker , your guitar sounds better without it probably because of the pickups , even to my ears it sounds better on track 1 .
On my emmons I can't use it because the pickup sound is unlikeable , it works well on a Trutone pickup jerry Wallace brand and on my crap trap pu's on a sierra crown
In a 5 piece band it has an advantage on the 2 different guitars where "brightness" is needed. Great product , just has its place 
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 11 Aug 2017 7:31 am
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The Lil Izzy: Has anyone ever de-engineered one of these and came up with a schematic?
I know that they were epoxied and gooped up inside, and there were rumors of part numbers being obscured or sanded off for secrecy.
I've done some searches and read of several suggestions for work arounds, but have not seen an actual schematic.
I personally don't have a need for one, but just curious. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Aug 2017 12:47 pm
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| Douglas Schuch wrote: |
| The Izzy impacts higher-pitch tones as this is what the cables and volume pots affect. |
Which is what all the many buffer amps with high input impedance and low output impedance do. So those who want to test out the effect for themselves, can do so even if the Lil' Izzy isn't made anymore. Check: Sarno - Hilton - Goodrich - Boss ... etc.
Slight sonic differences between the various buffer amps on the market, mainly because they do not have exactly the same input impedance and therefore do not load PUs the same.
I always have a buffer amp first in the sound-chain, but I prefer a more dynamic sonic outcome than a straight -linear - buffer amp will give, so mine are neither "linear" nor "straight". |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 11:29 am Mullen Steel, Goodrich pot volume pedal,Izzy plus
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| I have a PRP Mullen D-10, a Goodrich 500k ohm pot pedal and a Peavey Nashville 1000 amp and the Izzy plus...I find these four a the perfect combination...I will not play without the Izzy Plus because it gives me a fatter, richer tone...works for me YMMV. |
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Ray Thomas
From:
Goldsboro North Carolina
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 3:59 pm Information
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#2, especially the single notes seem to stand out
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Livesteel Strings Dealer
Call 919-920-5482
Text rayssteel@gmail.com or email |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 21 Aug 2017 9:03 pm
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Jim what sort of volume pedal were you using ? thats important to get any benefit out of the Izzy ...
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 12:05 am
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| ajm wrote: |
The Lil Izzy: Has anyone ever de-engineered one of these and came up with a schematic? I know that they were epoxied and gooped up inside, and there were rumors of part numbers being obscured or sanded off for secrecy.
I've done some searches and read of several suggestions for work arounds, but have not seen an actual schematic.
I personally don't have a need for one, but just curious. |
I am curious also! I am betting that it is FET-based. (BTW, I liked #2 better)
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Emmons & Peavey |
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