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Topic: If I Wanted To Get Rich Building Pedal Steel Guitars |
Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 11:42 am |
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Here's a story:
10 years ago I was engaged in conversation by a respected importer of "high end" Asian instruments (there are several) exploring the plausibility of manufacturing/marketing a pedal steel guitar. The guitar would be manufactured off shore but set up here in the states.
Attempting to gain some understanding of the market I know that part of their research was monitoring the SGF for a while.
Well, that never happened of course. As later related to me, there were obstacles that they felt were roadblocks. Here are a few that I recall.
+ Lack of a standard configuration (had a tough time with copedent variations). The ability to configure was a real issue.
+ Cost of maintaining QC on site at the manufacture.
+ Minimum shipment requirements (think a cargo container)
+ Costs of pre/post sale support
At the end of the day, recognizing that the pedal steel market was tiny compared to their accustomed market they calculated that they just did not have the $$$ resources to create a market where none had existed.
I don't have a personal opinion on the current market. I just found it fascinating that a company would at least entertain such an idea.
End of story.
h |
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Andrew Wright
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 11:43 am
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Interesting discussion, but I don't really follow the logic.
In my limited experience, pedal steel is brutally difficult to learn and doesn't have the same immediate applicability to newcomers outside of a pretty narrow slice of musical tastes/genre. So I'm not clear what would elevate it to equal status as the electric or acoustic guitar.
If we had data to suggest a lot of "abandoned shopping cart" situations where people are out there searching for pedal steels and then balking at the price when they were about to pull the trigger...I'd say you have a real business case.
But as an earlier post said so eloquently, the fundamental issue is demand, not supply. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 12:06 pm
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Think a pedal steel is hard to learn? Ever picked up a violin/fiddle and tried to learn to play it?
You'll spend two years driving everyone nuts with it.
Violins are so popular they teach it in schools.
Pedal Steels too hard to play is not a convincing argument. Too hard to setup and adjust? Ever thought about a manual for it? I know MSA's and Carter's shipped with manuals but don't know about other builders. And for the Asian's that did their research on the steel guitar forum I can see why they were turned off. How about the other 30 million potential customers that play music not on the steel guitar forum? I'm fairly new to this group myself but been playing professional steel since 1973. Just saying. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 12:09 pm
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| David Mitchell wrote: |
| And for the Asian's that did their research on the steel guitar forum I can see why they were turned off. |
For clarity. It wasn't an Asian company that was exploring the market. It was a domestic company.
h |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 12:30 pm
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| Howard thanks for the correction. I believe most old steel players like me have convinced themselves that pedal steel has gone about as far is it's gonna go. Without more teachers of the instrument I can promise you it has. The number one reason guitar players and non musicians tell me they passed on buying a steel was no teachers. I use to teach but just can't hold up anymore after leukemia, bone marrow transplant , total kidney failure and prostate cancer. I'm fine now but have less than half the energy I once had. I even have a different blood type. I was Type O positive now I'm B positive. Oh well, I'm just trying to give this group and all players a shot of adrenaline. If someone is too lazy to go to the internet to get a lesson they don't need any instrument. Like most of you all when I started there was nothing but vinyl records to learn from. From my neck of the woods lessons were nearly non existent. When a pro player would come to town we would pick their brain. I guess there will always be those that can and those that can't. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 1:29 pm
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Doug, good points on the lap steel resurgance. It sure makes the switch to pedal steel a lot easier if you already have some lap steel playing under your belt. Wasn't the lap steel already popular when the first pedal steels were made? Not to mention, the pedal steel music was on the radio & TV back then. There were less competing activities for a young kid's free time, too.
I still say nothing will get lap or pedal steels into the hands of young players faster today than a Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift or whoever else kids listen to these days to start playing them. Maybe a movie or TV show feature could do it, too. "O Brother, Where Art Though?" definitely helped introduce bluegrass to a younger audience. Maybe we need George Clooney to play pedal steel. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 1:35 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| It seems like lap steels have made a comeback in recent years. I can see why. They're a cheaper, lighter, portable and understandable alternative to pedal steel guitars. Most music stores today stock or can order lap steels. I've had twice as many lap steel students as pedal steel in recent years. |
Exactly. More than anything the price has everything to do with sales. How many people own
electronic and acoustic Spinet pianos compared to fine Grand pianos? All the music stores I worked in carried Morrell lapsteels and years ago one even carried the MSA Red Baron. I guess Maurice was really plugging those back then. They had plastic bodies. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 1:52 pm
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Morrell is an interesting case. They seem to be everywhere but they don't cater much to the "steel guitar crowd". No Forum presence, nor at any steel shows. Presumably they are marketing to guitarists?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 2:18 pm
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Lap steel wise, if anyone could've done it, it should've been Peavey. The Power Slide seemed to be an entry level instrument, at best. To be fair, I've not personally seen a Robert Randolph model.
There's a huge following for blues style slide guitar, ala conventionally holstered Stratocasters, et.al.
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Jay Friedrich
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 8 Aug 2017 2:53 pm
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I haven't seen any Chinese guys trying to register for the forum, but I don't pay very close attention to that kind of stuff...
However, I have seen at least two Indian guys here asking questions, and since I've seen bottleneck slide electric guitar being used in contemporary Indian pop music, I'm certain that pedal steel would fit as well.
China would be a much more economical place to build than Mexico. That's why Peavey went there. That's also why the Orange Conman makes his ties there... But let's not digress.
Fender did a line of Squiers in India a few years back, so I think India would be a possibility too, but I'd have more faith in China than India for production. India would be more likely to consume them.
I doubt that anyone will get rich making cheap pedal steels, but assuming that the profit motive is the only reason to do something is shallow. If that were true, we wouldn't have veterinarians, fire fighters, or any number of respectable professions that society relies on.
FWIW, Make sure it's easy to change to Day CBA pedals... I recently switched my old MSA S10 to Day and it feels like I'm FINALLY DOIN' IT RIGHT after 20 years!  |
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Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:15 am
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I believe it could be done, but not with the current E9/C6 "standard" steels.. you are going to have to appeal to a younger, hipper (mostly current 6 string guitarists)
I think David Jackson has the right idea with his stand up 6-8 string pedal steels.. and tune them like a "button accordion". Bear with me  so you have an open major tuning.. then pedal 1 is minor, 2 is a seventh, pedal 3 a 6th, etc...just mash a pedal to get the chord you want.. just like pressing a button on the accordion..
The get some one like Robert R (wait, he already is) to promote them and go to town..
https://youtu.be/5445qj7u6oM |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 8:10 am
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Steel guitar manufacturing. wow I can just see folks lining up to jump in and invest in that venture.
That's not unlike offering you 72 virgins and all you have to do is strap on dynamite. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 8:17 am
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| I love it! |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 9:30 am Delusional diatribe
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Never seen so many smoke-rings being puffed onto a thread here...as if THOUSANDS of "little Jimmys" across this 'I've got mine, go getcher own' nation had constant dreams each night of starting out on a pedal steel. NAWT!!
Jimmy n Jane only want to post clever items on those hand- held DEVICES they carry about everywhere... not much else exists outside in the "real world".
Steel guitar is a small, tight knit, self-serving community of (for the most part) older generations of ENTHUSIASTS! (hosted here courtesy of b0b's giant efforts)
The "Jimmys" have no clue what goes on here daily, and DONT CARE TO KNOW.
So where is this vast potential Market Share we should all recognize?
...Wispy puffs of smoke is all..and that jerky, thumpy, 'music' Jimmy hears? No where near
what goes on here. It's What Dinosaurs Listen To here.
I will grant you that it may be familiar to young Millennials elsewhere in our great nation, but here on the Left end, if casual mention is made and ears catch the word Steel..it's like:
"So, how'd you get away with stealing a guitar?" or similar. I might just as well be a visitor from a nearby galaxie! (not the Ford)
Last edited by Jon Zimmerman on 9 Aug 2017 10:39 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 9:44 am What's a diatribe?
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| C' mon guys! What's your google for? Alongside diatonic! Jimmy has it! 😙 |
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Jay Friedrich
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 1:58 pm
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Tough crowd... David had a good idea to generate some conversation. Maybe even a dream to make pedal steel accessible to a wider audience. That's not a bad dream, IMHO.
This has been one of the livelier threads in a while.
Some of the comments here make us look a bunch of old curmudgeons. I'm not officially a curmudgeon yet, but I've filled out my application...  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 5:40 pm
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Not sure if I want more people to get into steel. There ain't enough work for us now, and there ain't too many of us.
Imagine if the number of steelers were only HALF the number of guitar players? Forget that gig this weekend.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:16 pm A Stew-Mac kit?
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This comes to mind since I was just now glancing at a Stewart-MacDonald catalogue.. Why has this well known supplier not offered all parts to assemble a basic 3X5 single 10, all pcs inclusive, cab, endplates, pedal bar, changer, etc.?? Or, even a semi finished effort in its case, for those who would fumble-up assy? They supply kits to make a dreadnaught, dobro hdwr...and just about all else ndd to fix or improve 6 str/elec/acoust's? Why are they missing out on an open, build it yourself Cash Cow?
Someone ready to 'chime on in'? Just tossing that out for "Mullin-over"  |
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Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:18 pm
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| David , you never know , they mocked Henry Ford , Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Sometimes those ideas people have turn into gold when pursued. You have made a lot of good points. Thanks for your posts! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:19 pm
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Morrell is an interesting case. They seem to be everywhere but they don't cater much to the "steel guitar crowd". No Forum presence, nor at any steel shows. Presumably they are marketing to guitarists? |
I had one of the cheaper Morrell steels. Piece of pure crap. Wasn't even fit for firewood. They had a more expensive one that might be better.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:21 pm Re: A Stew-Mac kit?
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| Jon Zimmerman wrote: |
This comes to mind since I was just now glancing at a Stewart-MacDonald catalogue.. Why has this well known supplier not offered all parts to assemble a basic 3X5 single 10, all pcs inclusive, cab, endplates, pedal bar, changer, etc.?? Or, even a semi finished effort in its case, for those who would fumble-up assy? They supply kits to make a dreadnaught, dobro hdwr...and just about all else ndd to fix or improve 6 str/elec/acoust's? Why are they missing out on an open, build it yourself Cash Cow?
Someone ready to 'chime on in'? Just tossing that out for "Mullin-over" |
Sho,Bud, I'll answer that...Any newbies would most likely want something "turnkey", since a steel is a very complex mechanism. There gonna have a major fit just tuning the thing, let alone learning how to play it. Also, how will they know they have it working correctly if they can't play a note? I have been playing for over 30 years, and I still dread when I hafta make a minor adjustment. Even changing strings sometimes gets me fatootsed if I hafta adjust a stop or 2.
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:30 pm
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| David Mitchell wrote: |
Think a pedal steel is hard to learn? Ever picked up a violin/fiddle and tried to learn to play it?
You'll spend two years driving everyone nuts with it.
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Or in my case, more.  Before it will sound right, you have to become skilled with the fiddle, which has no frets, AND the bow, which if not handled correctly, will ruin all of your skills with the fiddle. And vise-versa. As for trying to learn how to play one, I refer to the fiddle as a two foot headache. I gave up. I'll stick to the pedal steel guitar.
Mitch |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:34 pm
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Well, I for one have very much enjoyed this thread. Gave me food for thought. But the problem is getting main stream country music back on main stream country radio stations. Are their any? We have to somehow get the teenagers attention and get them into country. They are the ones that buy the CD's and Tickets for concerts. And what do they here and see at those concerts, flashing lights, smoke and more smoke and loud, loud music that only make their bodies shake. I have been to many country music concerts, (George Jones, George Strait, Ray Price, Merle Haggard) and the list goes on & on and they did not need all the smoke and flashing lights to sell million's & million's of albums. So, back to mass production of steels. Standardize to one concept, one tuning and get it into the hands of teenagers. Sell it with a DVD instruction & tuning video. It will take years for all this to turn around but the Telecaster & Precision did not take to the general public overnight. We need new record producers in Nashville. People with country music in their souls. They control what is recorded and put out to main stream radio and what teenagers are listening to. I say again that teenagers are what buy the most records, cd's, DVD's, etc. Always have, always will. In the mid fifty's you go into a cafe for lunch and their is a juke box with country music playing. And then R&R with Elvis mixed in and things begin to change. Their again teenage kids buying this and it all was promoted by Nashville Record Producers. And of course we know Nashville Record Producers are just in it for the money. And their sales are to TEENAGERS. So, we need to have a different kind of music coming out of Nashville is my thought along with other thoughts. Times have changed and an old timer such as myself finds change hard to accept. Just a thought, Do any of you know of a cafe/diner where there is a juke box playing country music or any music? Of course I am from small town America and don't get around much so their may be. Hope I have not offended anyone here with my thoughts, that's all they are, is thoughts. Just hoping for the best to come for the steel guitar. Your Friend, J.R. Rose
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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