E9 tuning for 8 string.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

I assume that there was something close to E9 tuning on the 8 string before pedals. Can any of ya'll give me the tuning that gets you close to it. I've been doing pretty well w/C6 on my back neck, and am wanting to do E9 on the front until I can get my pedal steel.

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

The short answer is that E9 as used in a pedal steel doesn't work that great as a non pedal tuning. The closest useful tuning is probably an E13.

The long answer is probably within this thread.

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/002738.html

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks Jeff. I'll check it out. I have been able to get some E9 sounds within the C6.

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

I have been using D E G+ B C+ E G+ F+

Think of it in two ways. Pedals-up and pedals-down. Take G for instance, it is on the third fret. G is also on the tenth fret.

It works for me, YMMV.
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Andy DePaule · From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon

E9th is tough on lap steel. Back in 1975 when I decided I wanted to play pedal steel I bought the Winnie Winston book.
Took an old Kay guitar, raised the nut and tuned it to the middle 6 strings of a pedal steel because I didn't have loads on $$$ back then.
Just wouldn't work with the book.
Went out and got a Bigsby Palm Pedal and it still was too hard to use.
Finally broke down and saved up for a Sho-Bud.
E13th is as good as it gets for non pedal close to E9th.
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Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

I agree with the above. That E13th is where its at. Very close to E9

Join the party

I prefer it with more strings but hey as you only have 8 here is the core part of the tuning.

E
C#
B
G#
F#
E
D
B
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The Roy Wiggins E13th was the direct precursor to the pedal steel E9th tuning:

B D E G# B C# E G#

The first pedal made the C# string unnecessary, so they added the middle F# in the early 8-string pedal E9th.

Without pedals, I've found that sacrificing the low B for a high F# goes a long way towards getting pedal steel E9th sounds:

D E G# B C# E G# F#
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Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks to all. I've been going through some of the threads you folks have suggested and have come to the same conclusion - E13 is worth a go. I'm only using the National Grand Console till I can afford a new PSG but, it kinda has it's own flavor which is very cool. I've been at this since May and, having been a long time 6-stringer, played in a lot of bands over the years and so on and, having extensively studied Wes Montgomery and Charlie Christian, along w/all the blues and old R&R guys, I have a pretty good foundation in music itself. I was trying to go back to the basics of lap (starting w/the A tuning and so on) but, it was just a little too rudimentary for me as I'm already picking out Emmons and Day (among others) licks on the rear (C6), and was just looking for a good tuning to work with on my front neck. Things are going pretty well. My brain & left hand is ready to walk down the road but, my right hand is still on the porch haha. Guess I need to beat the right hand exercises for a while. Thanks again to all. I'm going E13 - I think I'd tuned it to that when I first got it anyway because I'd seen where Don Helms said that's what he used.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks bOb. I'll play with around with that.

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

I think Mike Neer has some tab/instruction things in non-pedal E9,,,,a couple of hot things like Seven Come Eleven and Four Wheel Drive

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I settled on:
E G# D E F# G# C# E
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

The E9 tuning as used by Speedy, Bud Isaacs, Buddy Emmons and others on their Bigsbys with pedals:

E
B
G#
F#
D
B
G#
E

You can make lots of great music without the pedals on this tuning.
I'm not aware of anyone else using this tuning on non-pedal previously. It's just something I deciphered from doing transcriptions.

Noel Boggs used an E13 tuning that was very similar, changing the 2nd string B to C#. All the rest of the strings remain the same.check out his recording of Little Coquette.
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Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

That's great stuff Mike. I like the surf treatment on Epistrophy. (never did see Little Coquette). Surf music is kinda what I was known for around here on 6-string. I have a cd we made in 2003 of a lot of surf stuff I wrote in the 80's I'd send you if you were interested. I love your version of 'Round Midnight. I spent many an hour listening and learning note for note Wes Montgomery's original Round midnight (The trio version, which has the same flavor you gave your version), to teach myself how to play chord solos and how to play lead w/my thumb. This, and Crepescule with Nellie are my favorite Monk songs. I will try your tuning, and some of the other e-13 the guys have shot me here. As I said earlier, I have been pretty well able to get some of the Nashville tuning stuff (as well as some pedal steel sounding stuff) using C6 and a lot of bar turning. I'm just trying to not get too locked into C6. Thanks again.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I don't think you're disagreeing with me at all, Stefan. You're not using the low B in your video, and all of things you're doing would sound the same if you had a high F# on your 1st string. I use those same slants when playing without pedals.

The high F# comes into play on fast licks and scale runs, common techniques on E9th pedal steel. It really helps if your primary goal is to emulate the recognizable styles of the E9th, which is what the OP asked for.
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Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

Jerry Byrd did an album ... "Admirable Byrd" ... that was done in his E9.

Hi to lo .. E B G# F# E D B E (G#)

Some folks "swore" that this album was proof that JB dabbled in PSG ... but alas, it was done on the above tuning in his usual virtuoso style.

I can't remember which tune ... but I seem to recall one on that album wasn't in E9 ... C diatonic rings A bell (I'm getting old) ðŸ¤“

I also recall the original liner notes by Chet Atkins stated in was E7 tuning ... JB politely corrected that statement later on .

Anyway, try it ... it's a great tuning ðŸ¤

David M Brown · From: California, USA

My favorite E13 tuning is the one used by Jules Ah See:

https://ilapsteel.wordpress.com/e13th-jules-ah-see-fretboard-layout/

http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tunings/setups.php?link=1019

same as Barney Isaac's E13

http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tunings/setups.php?link=1002

Jules Ah See (from Ely's site)

E13th
E (64)
C# (61)
G# (56)
F# (54)
D (50)
B (47)
G# (44)
E (40)

I find this a fascinating and useful tuning - and am still learning how to use it to it's full potential.

Just another option.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

OK. After a little fiddling around, I have gone w/the Jules Ah See E13 - for no particular reason other than it fits my string gauges a lot better than some of the others. Some of the others seemed to slacken them like crazy, and I have always been a heavy string guy for tone and feel.

I'll tell you what I did about a month ago on the C6 - I tuned the 8th string to F#. This gave me some really cool chords I could not find otherwise (I find it a little difficult to find dominant 7th chords on C6). It gives me some sort of altered/augmented/diminished/flatted 5th or 9th or something I cannot name haha. And, since I'm not on the 8th string so much, it's nice and out of the way. I was looking for some of the chords Jimmy Day played on Charlie Walker's Pick Me Up On Your Way Down, which is the song that finally made me realize that I HAD TO PLAY PEDAL STEEL!

So, my C6 is tuned like this:
1=E
2=C
3=A
4=G
5=E
6=C
7=A
8=F#

So now, it's time to play this new (to me) tuning and try and make some sense out of it. It doesn't sound like I'm going to get a lot of Nashville tuning sounds out of it but that's fine, I can wait till I get pedals and just learn the console for now.

Thanks to all for the input.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

... OK, I suppose F# in the C scale would be a flatted 5th huh? - It took a little thinking but, I've always been more of an ear guy than a pencil and paper one haha.

Einar Baldursson · From: Stockholm, Sweden

Joaquin Murphey had a tuning like that except his F# was an octave higher. Think of it as a D9/C6 combination tuning.

F# is 3rd, A is 5th, C is b7th and E is 9th. The root is strictly speaking not necessary.
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Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks Einar. My brains way of thinking works in tandem with my ear, making it hard to understand the actual math of it. It's like computer code which is totally alien for me. After years of trying to learn it, I am much better at it now but still kinda illiterate with it, while, at the same time, the sound of it it makes perfect sense to my ear.

Einar Baldursson · From: Stockholm, Sweden

Bobby I think your brain got the right idea in putting your ears in the driver's seat. I always figured that musical language is developed by people playing whatever sounds good to them and that this eventually leads to common practice or style. Then someone analyses the whole thing and makes neat little boxes of theoretical rules to abide by. The best players though always seem to be bending or breaking those rules. This is obviously an over-simplification and sometimes theoretical concepts are great to help expand ones ears, but the moral is - if it sounds good it is good.
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David M Brown · From: California, USA

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