The Steel Guitar Forum Store 

Post new topic Lloyd Green C Pedal
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  Lloyd Green C Pedal
James Collett

 

From:
San Dimas, CA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 1:37 pm    
Reply with quote

Watching the footage of Lloyd playing at the Station Inn last week, I noticed he makes pretty extensive use of his C pedal. This itself isn't surprising, given his signature licks with the BC pedal combo we all try and copy Wink What was surprising to me, though, was that I was usually hearing some kind of sweet, majory inversion. I know that the B and C pedals 2 frets up give you the third and fifth notes the key on strings 4 and 3, and you can do some cool unison stuff with strings 4 and 1, but it didn't seem like that was what I was hearing, and he didn't appear to be slanting the bar in those moments. Is there another obvious pocket in there that I'm missing?
_________________
James Collett
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 1:46 pm    
Reply with quote

Can you post a clip/video of a song that he utilized these moves in?
_________________
Sierra Crown D-10
View user's profile Send private message

Ricky Davis


From:
Bertram, Texas USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 3:09 pm    
Reply with quote

Yes there are many many more uses of the B and C pedals. Ok I was at Lloyd's house playing his LDG one time..and he said: "Ok Ricky; play all the solo moves of together again, without using strings 3 and 5 at all"....I was like; ok no prob. Well it was a HUGE prob..ha. until he sat down and played it flawlessly on just strings 4 and 6, using the B and C pedals. That right there opened up a whole new E9 pedal steel guitar to me, that I thought never existed.
Ok; Get to work.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Richard Lotspeich

 

From:
North Georgia
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 5:09 pm    
Reply with quote

^^^^^ I be working on at. Thank you Ricky.
_________________
Dick Lotspeich
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Bobby Boggs

 

From:
Upstate SC.
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 5:44 pm    
Reply with quote

I like the fatter sound and the timbre better on strings 4 and 6 via the B&C pedals as opposed to strings 3 and 5. A&B pedals for the majority of my playing. Your mileage may vary.
View user's profile Send private message

James Collett

 

From:
San Dimas, CA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 6:45 pm    
Reply with quote

Tim, I can probably find a particularly pertinent example later tonight, but it will take some time to scan through the whole set Charley Hill posted (over 90 minutes of awesomeness).

Ricky, super cool--thanks for sharing! I'm definitely going to mess around with that tonight!
_________________
James Collett
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jim Palenscar

 

From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 6:53 pm    
Reply with quote

Great reply Ricky- made my night- thanks Smile
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Ricky Davis


From:
Bertram, Texas USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 7:34 pm    
Reply with quote

NO prob guys and way cool of your expression Jim P. thank you.
It really is just so incredible what Lloyd does around many corners. There was also a time when I had an old Marlen Speedy West pedal steel that you could either raise or lower a string but not both. So there was no 4th string E lower(just like Lloyd does not lower 4th String E). I played that guitar for almost a year and came up with so many other ways of getting voicings I wanted but didn't have what I was used to...so I found OTHER ways and came upon stuff I never thought I would play/figure out.
Sorry so winded guys...but I believe that is what this Thread is about. "How does Lloyd do this or that"...well lloyd would look right at you and say: "practice hearing what you want; on other strings; other frets, it's all there in many ways".
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2017 7:43 pm    
Reply with quote

Thanks, Ricky.

That is excellent info. I love using B&C that way.


Last edited by Dan Robinson on 20 Jul 2017 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jan Jonsson


From:
Gothenburg, Sweden
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 6:38 am    
Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm happy to see this post regarding the use of the B&C pedals. When I started tabbing some of Lloyd's performances I soon began to suspect, often due to the timbre of the notes, that some of the licks were not played in the position you would initially expect. For example, as mentioned by Bobby Boggs above, using the B&C pedals on strings 4 and 6 gives you a fatter sound than playing the sames notes on strings 3 and 5 with the A&B pedals.

And then when you add the second string D#->C# lever (with a half stop) the possibilities become really intriguing! I've found several places in Lloyd's performances where the B&C pedals and the D#->C# lever together on strings 2, 4 and 6 are most likely used instead of the more intuitive choice of A&B pedals and the low E->D# lever on strings 5, 6 and 8. Again, it is the timbre of the notes played that makes me suspect this. In Lloyd's recent recording, "Venus Moon", I am pretty convinced that the B&C pedals and D#->C# lever combo is used several times.

In the following recording ("Variations of a Theme, Part 1") Lloyd demonstrates how the B&C pedals and the D#->C# lever can be used together to produce some really beautiful voicings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78jWwotcDY

Best regards,
/Jan
_________________
CDs: Waltz for Elma (2015), Steel Reflections (2009)
Gear: 10-string Desert Rose "Delta Blues", Fender Deluxe 8, Fender CS Nocaster
Transcriptions of Lloyd Green's music: www.lloydgreentribute.com (Tablature menu)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Drew Howard


From:
48854
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 6:56 am    
Reply with quote

Indeed, Lloyd's use of the 2nd string lower is unparalleled and, I feel, why he is not copied.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Ricky Davis


From:
Bertram, Texas USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 10:23 am    
Reply with quote

Thanks for chiming in here Jan...
FOLKS; my friend Jan Jonsson; is the only one that I have EVER seen write tablature to the closest/perfected way that Lloyd Green actually played something. I know this because I have tried for many many years and every time I put something up; Lloyd will call me and say: "Well Ricky that is very close BUT, try this and play that"....and long story short It was so hard for me and everyone else to figure the exact Strings and fret he was actually playing..ha.
Until Jan.
Jan has already tabbed many things the way Lloyd played it and so there is your Massive learning possibilities of how Lloyd uses B and C pedals and many other combos...we have yet to figure out.
Get with Jan.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Brint Hannay

 

From:
Maryland, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 11:16 am    
Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Brint Hannay on 20 Jul 2017 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 11:45 am    
Reply with quote

Nothing to do with Lloyd, but in 94 or 5 I took Jeff Newman's seminar at St. Louis, and he was very high on the 4 and 6 B&C pedal harmonized scale.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

Jan Jonsson


From:
Gothenburg, Sweden
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 1:11 pm    
Reply with quote

Hey Ricky! Thanks of lot for those very kind words. Despite your great guidance when I started playing the pedal steel I've never managed to get comfortable with playing the E9th tuning (instead I became more of a C6th jazz/fusion player). However, I do enjoy listening to, and analyzing, great E9th players. And, to that end, Lloyd Green is the one that gets my attention most of the time. But, of course, you Ricky are also an inspiration (my favorites are the Billy Dee and Linda Lay CDs).

Best regards,
/Jan
_________________
CDs: Waltz for Elma (2015), Steel Reflections (2009)
Gear: 10-string Desert Rose "Delta Blues", Fender Deluxe 8, Fender CS Nocaster
Transcriptions of Lloyd Green's music: www.lloydgreentribute.com (Tablature menu)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jeff Garden


From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 1:44 pm    
Reply with quote

I'd like to echo what Ricky D said about Jan Jonsson's transcriptions. If you're into Lloyd Green's playing, they are unbelievably accurate and well done and you will learn a lot. Thanks for your hard work deciphering Lloyd's magic, Jan! Smile
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Abe Levy


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 3:41 pm    
Reply with quote

Is there a place to find all of Jan's tabs?
_________________
Mostly Pre-1970 guitars.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jan Jonsson


From:
Gothenburg, Sweden
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 3:45 pm    
Reply with quote

Hi Abe,

You can find my old post regarding the tabs here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=287631

Best regards,

-- Jan
_________________
CDs: Waltz for Elma (2015), Steel Reflections (2009)
Gear: 10-string Desert Rose "Delta Blues", Fender Deluxe 8, Fender CS Nocaster
Transcriptions of Lloyd Green's music: www.lloydgreentribute.com (Tablature menu)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Brint Hannay

 

From:
Maryland, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 4:14 pm     Good Lloyd Tab Here!
Reply with quote

Hi all,

I posted above, but upon consideration I realized that the fact that no one here knows me personally--I am essentially Nobody here on the Steel Guitar Forum--may have caused people to overlook my post. So I thought I'd try again.

Back in 2013 Rob Duuren posted what I think is an extremely accurate tablature transcription of Lloyd's intro to Peter Cooper's "Wine" right here on the Forum. It includes use of the B & C pedals and the 2nd string 1/2- and whole-step lowers using strings 6, 4, and 2 in the first half of the intro.

It's not a whole song, but it's available for free right here on the Forum, here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=238606&highlight=wine

In the thread there is exceptionally good video of Lloyd playing the intro, where one can clearly see what fret he's at and when he uses bar slants. That, together with the audio, together with knowing what Lloyd's copedent has and doesn't have, led Rob to post what I firmly believe is an accurate transcription of how Lloyd played this intro.

I've done very few attempts to tab out stuff like this, and I am at best a hack on the steel guitar, but I devoted a lot of time myself to tabbing out this intro by studying the video, and if Rob's version of this isn't accurate I'll eat my hat. (Luckily, I seldom wear a hat.)

All I'm saying is: those interested in Lloyd's C pedal use, CHECK OUT THE LINK ABOVE. It's worthwhile!
Very Happy
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

James Collett

 

From:
San Dimas, CA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 4:19 pm    
Reply with quote

Thanks everyone, this is all great stuff!
_________________
James Collett
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jan Jonsson


From:
Gothenburg, Sweden
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2017 4:50 pm    
Reply with quote

Thanks, Brint!

I completely agree that the transcription of Lloyd's intro to "Wine" is very useful, and it was a great help and inspiration for me when it was made available here at the forum. I had struggled for some time with that intro, and never quite got it right.

It is an excellent example of how the C pedal is used in a more advanced setting.

Best regards,

-- Jan
_________________
CDs: Waltz for Elma (2015), Steel Reflections (2009)
Gear: 10-string Desert Rose "Delta Blues", Fender Deluxe 8, Fender CS Nocaster
Transcriptions of Lloyd Green's music: www.lloydgreentribute.com (Tablature menu)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jan Jonsson


From:
Gothenburg, Sweden
Post  Posted 22 Jul 2017 7:02 pm    
Reply with quote

Hi,

I recently finalized a transcription of "Venus Moon", a beautiful composition by Lloyd that was performed at Station Inn and that contains several interesting uses of the C pedal.

My transcription is based on the studio recording that is available for purchase via iTunes, but it also corresponds very well with the live versions you can find on YouTube.

Here is my forum post with the transcription:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2650231

Best regards,

-- Jan
_________________
CDs: Waltz for Elma (2015), Steel Reflections (2009)
Gear: 10-string Desert Rose "Delta Blues", Fender Deluxe 8, Fender CS Nocaster
Transcriptions of Lloyd Green's music: www.lloydgreentribute.com (Tablature menu)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 23 Jul 2017 9:43 am    
Reply with quote

When you lower the second string D# to D (a half step), the B+C pedals give you a major chord on strings 2 3 4. Rocking on/off the C pedal makes the classic country sound, like rocking on/off the A pedal in an A+B position but with a thinner timbre.

There are many uses for this "B+C+D" position, 2 frets above the "no pedals" position of any major chord.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 23 Jul 2017 5:23 pm    
Reply with quote

A few uses of the 3rd pedal, maybe some will be useful to you.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab11.html
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger

John Goux

 

From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 10:42 am    
Reply with quote

This thread opened up a whole new door of chords and notes.

Thanks to Bob for pointing out the D major chord on 2,3,4. With B/C and D. (String 2 to D natural)

Since string 1 is a unison with 4:
the same D major chord is on Str 1-2-3.

F#minor chord, (and D maj 7th) on 2-3-4 with the Str 2 lever lowered to C#.

With Str 5 lower(B to Bb), you get a D dom7 on 3-4-5. This is a split.

You also get a D6 pentatonic scale across the whole guitar, by holding B pedal and string 2 lower at D, and can rock the C pedal to raises degrees 6 to Maj7.

Thanks everyone.
John
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  

Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction,
steel guitars & accessories

www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

Please review our Forum Rules and Policies

Steel Guitar Forum LLC
PO Box 237
Mount Horeb, WI 53572 USA


Click Here to Send a Donation

Email admin@steelguitarforum.com for technical support.


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for
Band-in-a-Box

by Jim Baron
HTTP