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Author Topic:  Anyone play with fingers instead of picks?
Todd Mathis

 

From:
South Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 12:58 pm    
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I'm a finger picking acoustic guitar player trying to play the steel. The picks seem so unnatural. I was just wondering if any of you use your fingers instead of picks?
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Larry Carlson


From:
My Computer
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 1:32 pm     Re: Anyone play with fingers instead of picks?
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Todd Mathis wrote:
I'm a finger picking acoustic guitar player trying to play the steel.
The picks seem so unnatural.
I was just wondering if any of you use your fingers instead of picks?


Yes, so am I.
Yes they do.
Yes I do.

I do however use a thumbpick..... Mr. Green
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 1:49 pm    
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There was a lengthy thread on this not long ago.

Bottom line is, if you want to get that sound that made you curious about the instrument in the first place - get used to the picks. You won't find any tuition (written or personal) that doesn't assume their use.
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Russell Adkins

 

From:
Louisiana, USA
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 5:11 pm    
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Picking with the fingers only will give you a softer sound on your steel and using finger picks will brighten up that tone or sound , I would suggest that you do both , try the finger picks for awhile see what happens and how you like the sound , give it a fair chance . Russ Very Happy
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 7:19 pm    
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Ian Rae wrote:
There was a lengthy thread on this not long ago.

Bottom line is, if you want to get that sound that made you curious about the instrument in the first place - get used to the picks. You won't find any tuition (written or personal) that doesn't assume their use.


http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=317979
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Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 7:46 pm     Re: Anyone play with fingers instead of picks?
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Todd Mathis wrote:
The picks seem so unnatural.

Right. So, here's the thing: there is nothing natural about playing pedal steel guitar. Nothing. Fercryinoutloud, you're using both hands, both feet, and both knees. (We'd use both kidneys too if someone could figure out how to make it work.) So the fact that, at the beginning, some aspect of playing steel "seems unnatural" is, well... kind of irrelevant.

BUT! You should have a pro check out how you're wearing your picks and how they are bent. I've had many new students either wear them incorrectly, or not bend them appropriately and, once corrected, they felt much better about using them. So be sure to check that out with an experienced pro, then give it a good 6 months before deciding whether to use them or not. As others have mentioned, you can only get that 'snappy' tone from picks. But, hey, if you don't seek to get that sound (or plan to play with or work for people who will expect you to be able to execute that sound), then you don't have to wear them. Just don't decide too early.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 9:54 pm    
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I think the string tension on PSG presents the biggest difficulty to a bare fingers approach. 011 tuned to G# is pretty tight and doesn't respond to fingertips the same as an 011 tuned to E. The biggest advantage is, holy crap! fingertip harmonics are you kidding me it doesn't get any easier and they sound great.

Most players prefer fingerpicks because they produce a more pure metal-on-metal clarity and even out the attack when paired with a good thumbpick. A thumbpick and barefinger attack on acoustic guitar is fairly easy to even up, but the thumbpick will always win a volume level meter contest over bare fingers on steel.

So try both. I will never exclude thumbpick-and-barefingerstyle from my steel playing. But then, I'm not really trying to impress anyone either. Cool
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Per Berner


From:
Skövde, Sweden
Post  Posted 10 Jul 2017 10:38 pm    
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I wish I could play with picks, but I just can't. I've tried wearing picks (serious efforts!) dozens of times over the years, but I've always given up. They just don't feel right to me, it's like playing by remote control.

Without picks, I get a lot more control and much easier blocking. The trade-off is that I lose a bit of tone – that crystal clear, clean attack that only picks can create. Turning up the treble only helps to some extent, but I prefer being in control to sounding a little bit better. I'm the only one listening, anyway...

That said, please do learn to play with picks and get used to them.
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Rich Peterson


From:
Moorhead, MN
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 6:20 am    
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I sit at the steel with a guitar strapped on, going from one to the other. Unless you want the thin Junior Brown sound on guitar all the time, fingernails are the way to go. Go to a nail spa and get tips and acrylic applied on your picking hand. Use a narrow thumb pick to even out the loudness.

I've seen finger pickers use high tension strings and Leo Kottke manages quite well on a 12-string, so why would it be such an issue on steel?

Perhaps raise the pickup closer to the strings, perhaps use an AlumaTone (less magnetic pull on the strings,) and if needed, a buffer/preamp before the volume pedal to boost the signal. But I can pick hard enough as it is to make the amp jump.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 8:29 am    
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Strong fingernails are in the DNA, and I don't have that gene. I can't stand the smell of a nail salon, but if you can and regular applications of acrylic do the trick, more power to you.

Not many of us are Leo Kottke. The comparison of his guitar style to average PSG style playing is almost apples and oranges. String tension is a key issue for tone on steel or guitar, and if you are used to picks, there is an adaption process when going without. Just ask Leo.

A thinner thumbpick is a good start to solving the uneven attack difficulty. Fingertip callouses will never sound like picks or nails, but they can work.

Switching between guitar and steel is probably going to be my job when I start playing out again, so thanks for the inspiration to keep at this. I do not want to be messing with fingerpicks on and off between songs.
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Rich Peterson


From:
Moorhead, MN
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 11:00 am    
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A nail salon should have good ventilation, for the health of the employees. But I understand that the smell of the solvent can be hard to handle. It's worth it to me.

One issue that bears mentioning, since you are talking of using finger tips rather than nail. The closer string spacing of the PSG may cause difficulty.
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richard burton


From:
Britain
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 11:31 am    
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When I started, I couldn't play with picks at all, but after a few years I realised that my tone was still crap, so I persevered with picks.

Fast forward 20 years, and my tone has improved, but I now find that I can't play without picks
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 12:13 pm    
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Rich Peterson wrote:
One issue that bears mentioning, since you are talking of using finger tips rather than nail. The closer string spacing of the PSG may cause difficulty.


That's where my skinny fingers come in handy, so to speak... I never had any real trouble with acoustic guitars that were made for strumming either, so no large deal. I can see that being an issue for somebody with tree stumps for fingers though.
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Cartwright Thompson


Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 1:54 pm    
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Playing steel guitar without picks is like playing classical guitar without nails, you'll never get the sound the instrument is capable of.
Jim had some good advice, make sure you're wearing them properly.
Tough it out, before you know it you won't be able to play without them.
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Kevin Fix

 

From:
Michigan, USA
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 3:30 pm     Picks!!!!
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If you are starting out on PSG. USE THE FINGER PICKS AND THUMB PICK. Get yourself a pair of "JF" (Jeff Newman) finger picks. They are pre bent and they follow the tips of your fingers. Get a National thumb pick. It's like Jim Cohen was saying, We use both hands, both feet and both knee's and don't miss a lick!!! You get that down and the picks are nothing. The tone comes from the proper attack of those picks.
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Len Amaral

 

From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 4:27 pm    
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Wear the picks and twirl the bar while watching TV. It may seem odd but It will raise your comfort level when you sit down at the steel. I still have a bar on my end table near my easy chair to twirl and fidget with.
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Paddy Long


From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 4:27 pm    
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If you have plans to be a decent player, then you need to master the use of picks!! Anything less will leave you mostly unemployable Very Happy
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 5:59 pm    
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I can see that players are pretty well decided on this topic. Just a few more of my own thoughts on it, since nobody asked...

If you are unemployable as a steel player, it is probably not because you don't use fingerpicks.

If you are playing guitar and steel on the same gig, as I know I will be doing, changing back and forth from fingerpicks to barefingerstyle is going to get tedious and possibly time consuming enough to annoy band mates.

I am keeping it simple and doing what I trained myself on guitar to do, thumbpick and barefingerstyle. I can play with picks too. I just don't see the difference in steel tone as a compromise. If your own playing suffers from not wearing picks, or if you are fortunate enough to get a steel-only gig, or if the boss demands it, or if that is simply your comfort zone, by all means wear them.
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Rich Peterson


From:
Moorhead, MN
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2017 6:46 pm     Re: Picks!!!!
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Kevin Fix wrote:
The tone comes from the proper attack of those picks.


And there is ONLY ONE ACCEPTABLE TONE!

And you guys complain that a steel player can't get a gig. If you all sound the same, you are interchangeable. A commodity rather than a talent. Subject to supply and demand. Since the supply is in excess, the price goes down.
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Jay Friedrich

 

From:
Dallas, TX
Post  Posted 12 Jul 2017 12:57 am     Re: Picks!!!!
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Rich Peterson wrote:
Kevin Fix wrote:
The tone comes from the proper attack of those picks.


And there is ONLY ONE ACCEPTABLE TONE!

And you guys complain that a steel player can't get a gig. If you all sound the same, you are interchangeable. A commodity rather than a talent. Subject to supply and demand. Since the supply is in excess, the price goes down.


I agree with Rich here.

For an instrument that is supposedly still rapidly evolving, I'm surprised by the dogma and inflexible thinking.

I used to put first aid tape around my fingertips, then clamp the metal finger picks on top of the tape using pliers, and then wrap more tape around the base of the picks.

This held the picks on, but after a few months my natural nails were dying underneath the tape.

I need to be able to play with my nails too as I also play traditional classical guitar which pays more bills than my pedal steel does.

For me the choice was give up the metal picks or give up classical guitar... I still play classical guitar.

Chet Atkins, Tommy Emannuel, Mark Knopfler, James Taylor, and Kazuhito Yamashita all use fake nails. Not salon-type fake nails, but a composite, kind of like Bondo for your nails.

Here is a useful video of JT discussing how he prepares his nails:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqISqpMRo8

If I was gigging on PSG, I would go this route instead of going back to metal fingerpicks.

But sometimes I still pull out the tape and metal fingerpicks... Old habits die hard!
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Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post  Posted 12 Jul 2017 1:56 am     Re: Picks!!!!
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Jay Friedrich wrote:
For an instrument that is supposedly still rapidly evolving, I'm surprised by the dogma and inflexible thinking.

Nah. There might well be some dogma and inflexible thinking among many steel guitarists but this ain't an example of it. What you're hearing is people saying that there IS (as a point of fact) a certain traditional sound (particularly for country music) that many steel players strive to execute, and which would be difficult if not impossible to emulate without picks. If you don't care about executing that sound, then use your fingers, fake nails, a flatpick, or anything you prefer. That's just stating a fact, not being dogmatic and inflexible.
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Charlie McDonald


From:
out of the blue
Post  Posted 12 Jul 2017 4:55 am     Re: Picks!!!!
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Rich Peterson wrote:
And there is ONLY ONE ACCEPTABLE TONE!

And it belongs to Jim Cohen. I read it on the Forum.

There may be only one acceptable tone for some record producers. Picks cut through noisy stage environments.
A master steel players could adapt to both (picks and barefingered). Jim's tone about this rings true. Natural?
Might be different from au naturel.
Yeah, pedal steel--it's not natural.

The advice of these several professional players who recommend getting used to picks is sound. Somehow, they learn to embrace them.
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Todd Mathis

 

From:
South Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 12 Jul 2017 5:01 am     Picking
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Thanks for all the responses!
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Bob Carlucci

 

From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post  Posted 12 Jul 2017 5:13 am    
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NO ONE like fingerpicks at first.. They feel horrible, and you are certain, absolutely 100% positive that you can't EVER get used to them...
However, its just a matter of time.. You MUST put the time in, and get used to them.. Very simple way.. Here's how i did it.. Put them on, making sure you have them on right[look at pictures of other players], and then DO NOT take them off.. I slept with mine on, worked, ate, drove, etc.. Simply keep them on as much as you possibly can , every moment during the day, AND when you sleep.. In a few days you will not even notice they are there, and yo can set about getting used to playing the steel with them on.. You CAN play with fingers, but for fast staccato picking and solid punchy string attack which is often used on pedal steel, you will be going in with half your artillery.. Get used to the picks... We all had to do it, you will be fine IF you have a positive attitude about it and just do it... bob
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Rich Peterson


From:
Moorhead, MN
Post  Posted 12 Jul 2017 5:48 am    
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If you need to "cut through a noisy stage environment," maybe everyone on stage is trying to do the same thing, resulting in an escalating arms race. Getting a good sound mix requires compromise, not competition. On six-string, I alter my tone in several ways to go from lead to support. And get complements from singers for staying out of their way.

Todd already plays finger picking acoustic, and plans on switching on the fly to PSG and back. Do you really think it's reasonable to demand that he learn to use picks on acoustic?

Get "properly bent" picks from Jeff Newman's site? Give that advice to Sarah Jory. Looks like her picks are straight.
https://youtu.be/TcP6uVb5lg0

This is a good, lively discussion. Exactly what a Forum should be. Just don't get caught up in "winning the argument." Keep an open mind. You might learn something.
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