Artists and producers knowing how to use steel guitar

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

I think we've all seen lamentations on here about steel guitar being used less in music. I think that perception is just caused by the change in how music is made and distributed now. From what I see and hear, I don't think it's true that pedal steel guitar is threatened with extinction or even relegation to retro-type music.

However, I do wonder if one thing that is being lost is artists and producers knowing how to use it effectively in their songs. I don't disagree with people saying that pedal steel can be used in many types of music, but I'm currently of the mindset that there are certain roles that it fills and that if that role doesn't exist in a song, that you're better off not having it at all. In my experience, most people don't understand this. Either they equate a pedal steel player to an electric guitarist who tries to fill up space everywhere in a song, or they just see it as a way to put an imprint of country authenticity on a song.

I've had experiences with musicians who are far more experienced and talented than me who give me a blank look when I'm making music with them and I tell them that I don't "hear" a steel part in a part of song. I'm confident enough about it to say that it's better that I don't waste their time and diminish the musical experience by playing something ill-fitting. It's not that they don't agree... they can't tell me what they "hear" either, it's just that they don't think that way. I can't be condescending towards them either, it took me a while to develop that sense and it's still a work in progress.

When I listen to new artists who use pedal steel, the thing that sticks out to me most is whether the song uses it effectively. That's true even when it's hardly used at all. What made this thought come to mind for me was sitting down and playing the steel part of Cody Jink's cover of Merle Haggard's "The Way I Am". When I first heard it, I didn't pay close attention to the steel part. I just heard it in the instrumental hook and assumed that it was in the back of the mix for pads and fills. It turns out that the only time it's used in the song is for that instrumental hook. But I wouldn't change it. It's an effective use of the steel guitar in that song.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

While I agree with much written above , keep in mind that producers are thinking big picture, not just about one instrument such as Steel guitar. While we as Steel players may feel we hear certain things, it may be totally opposite what a producer may be hearing. They are not thinking this is a Steel guitar song, they are thinking about the song in general, all the parts, at the same time.
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Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Many singers associate the sound of the steel with lonely hot deserts or other atmospheric landscapes. I never liked the ambient idea if the melody is boring. I did a few of them, but I forgot them quickly.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

ajm · From: Los Angeles

Maybe the producer doesn't know what they want.
They may think that they want a steel guitar, but aren't quite sure of how to fit it in.
Maybe they are hearing a part and know what they want, but can't quite put it into words.
They may not have even considered a steel guitar, and you can show them how it might fit.

Or, maybe the steel guitar player themself doesn't know how it might fit in.

David Mitchell · From: Tyler, Texas

In the old days of country music the producers pretty much let the musicians produce themselves. Sometimes they might make some simple suggestions with what the musicians came up with. Studio musicians are so good they really don't need a producer in a lot of cases but a hit record might need a vision from someone who has given the song much thought. Great steel players just know when they have a part that fits and when it don't because good studio musicians have producers minds too are they would not be there.
I think steel guitar became less and less on recordings as record companies decided to work with singers that write their own songs and produce their own songs like Taylor Swift and Brad Paisley. Taylor is a producer that steel guitar is just not on her brain although her productions sell very well. Brad Paisley is the kind of producer that will build a song around a steel guitar. His mind just thinks steel guitar. All singing all dancing artist is why things changed so drastically as to how steel was used in music. The days of a room full of great musicians with a knocked out steel picker and a producer like Chet Atkins, Owen Bradley or Billy Sherrill is gone.

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

David,

Great post. I believe you hit the nail on the head. Some of the greatest arrangements of classic country were put together by the musicians with very little input from a producer. Those producers had enough smarts to let the pickers do their job.

Regards,
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David Mitchell · From: Tyler, Texas

I asked my best friend Walter Haynes who was a producer for Decca/MCA in the 60's and 70's what he actually did as a producer on Cal Smith's Country Bumpkin song and he said "Nothing". He told me the musicians were so good they produced themselves all he had to do was select them and organize the session and give the take he liked his approval.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Very well made point, David.

I would venture to guess that back in those days, everybody knew everybody. When Cal Smith walked into the studio, the musicians probably already had a pretty good idea of what they were getting into and how to approach the project.

These days, an average artist can walk into the studio not knowing the musicians or the producer, and vice versa. The studio itself may as well be in a foreign land. Musical styles, taste, and capabilities can vary greatly. Of course the producer can assume the role of God in this situation. Nobody else knows what the heck is going on or has a "vision" for the end goal of the recording.

I would much rather go in to a session with my regular band and cut the song the way we play it and self-produce. Then there's the recording engineer, whose job title also seems to cover a lot of ground...

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

As far as the steel being used goes I'm under the impression that it is more about the musician than the instrument.
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Bob

David Mitchell · From: Tyler, Texas

I'm basing my opinion after 35 years as a fulltime recording engineer for many steel players in Scotty's Hall of Fame and major record label producers in Nashville and Dallas. I was a producer myself and either used Tom Morrell or Maurice Anderson. Last few sessions I have done that made AWA album of the year award had Junior Knight on steel. Call Junior. I'm the youngest of the bunch at 63 years old and most I worked with are dead and retired by now. The producer whoever that may be passes out the charts and we have about 10 minutes to get a song together. Sometimes we just let the musician hear it and he writes his own chart. The song is played then the producer or band leader makes any corrections necessary. It's not really rocket science. Lately I record and muc through email back and forth one at a time. As for what 20 and 30 year old artist are doing in Nashville I don't know and further don't care. It's a different world now. I would call guys like Mike Johnson, Paul Franklin and Tommy White for a more definite answer. I understand that's all they do.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

David, Your comments are always golden to me. You are the real deal ! I edited my earlier comment when read over the whole thread and saw your gems in there.
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Bob

David Mitchell · From: Tyler, Texas

Bob no problem. I know who you are too. Junior and I was talking about you one day when he traded me a Rains steel with Tone Aligners for a push pull. He said you were the original owner. Wish I had kept it but Junior got to feeling bad about letting it go and I got homesick for the Emmons so we traded back. Lol! Now we don't have either guitar. We're nuts. Junior an I ho back to the days of Tony Douglas and the Shrimpers. Junior and I only played 1 actual gig together the night he sat in on my bass. I played bass a little over a year with Tony and Junior played steel off and on for years with Tony. Tony was our boot camp you might say. The stories we could tell. Lol!

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

This is all good stuff. Thanks for your thoughts.

Unless a producer would just be happy with chords, slides, scales, or some A+B stomping, it's tough for me to imagine improvising steel into the instrumentation of a song and having a producer eat it up. At my skill level, that'd be like showing a singer a chord progression and time signature and asking them to improvise lyrics, melody, and phrasing.

If some of the distinctive steel parts I look up to were actually created that way, I'd be blown away. For those, you'd think it'd be chalked up to chance, inspiration, or the producer deciding to sit back and go with it.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Okay, this is The Steel Guitar Forum. It doesn't take long for a topic to head into Big Time territory, because there are so many Big Time players and builders and artists who are members here.

For some of us who have never been to that level and don't have a prayer of ever breaking in, the recording business can be quite intimidating.

I love David's term " producer's mind". That is exactly how I approach any recording session. I might have an idea of what my guitar or steel should sound like, and even a pretty good idea of what to play. It only takes one disgusted look or snide comment from "God" to destroy any inspiration. I really don't think that is the producer's job.

I also believe that many of the iconic licks and phrases and themes to songs we know and love were produced exactly in the manner you say you would be blown away to know, Curt- Because the musicians who created them have "producer's mind" and were allowed to explore the song to its ultimate depths and heights and use their skills and knowledge to the fullest. All in about 10 minutes.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

reading several nice comments above I guess my final comments would be,

when called to do a session, ( paid not free ) go ahead and play whatever you feel is proper according to your ears...

Then see if it agrees with whoever the producer may be, then see if the Steel even makes the final recording and then see if you ever get called again !

Producers back in the early traditional days were popping out records at breathtaking speed, some of it was really good, iconic in fact, some of it was really filled with overplaying licks that don't even match the song.

Now I totally agree that in some cases producers are not really familiar with , or are afraid to use too much Steel guitar. I see this even in the limited demo sessions I work on, but regardless, it's their dime .

It's our job, should we get hired to play any session, be it local , regional or retail release, is to use our ears and play the "song", meaning play what matches the song not what we have been practicing at home. Instruments are supposed to compliment not just the song but each other.

The only time we should just lay it all out is if we are requested to . Maybe rare, but not uncommon.

IF we are playing any session and don't not ask the #1 fundamental question to the producer or even the singer songwriter, if they are even present is,

"What are you looking for"

I wonder how many times we as Steel players got invited to a session of sorts and blew the opportunity because we decided to play Steel guitar licks instead of the song ? Then those producers placed all of us in the same Sardine can. Are we wondering today why so many believe that the Pedal Steel Guitar is only good for traditional Country music ? Of course it's my favorite music to play and to listen to.

When in session, I have been requested to play several variations of smooth phrases that blend into the mix which are NOT just AB pedals here and there. The Pedal Steel guitar is so much more than a few AB pedal licks here and there. I dare say that if we keep leaning on the AB pedals alone that could be part of the reason many people think we are part of the whiny music club !

Just be aware and alert is all I say.

Play to the best of our ability and don't lock ourselves in the stereotypical sounds and phrases. Create music that matches the song and what they are looking for. Give them several variations.

If we show any producer this, we will get called again and the next sessions they will be seeking input from us rather than telling us what to do. They will already know that we can do the job, thats why they are calling.

And no, I am certainly not a regular duty session player locally, but I do get called perhaps once a month by 2 or 3 different studio's around town. Its really fun and very challenging , even in the most simplistic way.

When you hire a painter to paint your house, in our out, who picks the colors ? You or the painter ?
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Hear hear, Tony.

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Stereotypical sounds and licks became stereotypes because they seem to occur naturally and ubiquitously. If a young player doesn't recognize them as such, so what? Other players will be playing his "discovery", and quite possibly for the same reason he is, even though it may have a different effect depending on other variables within the song's production. Music doesn't change that much really, especially pop music.

Your soundscape comment is very interesting. I would say the soundscape should be part of the narrative. It has always fascinated me that a fairly uptempo tune with maybe only one minor chord among many majors can still sound forlorn enough to match a wistfull lyric and melody. PSG can certainly take a song into the stratosphere or into the abyss.

Okay, that's my opinion and you are probably much more anxious to hear from somebody else finally Razz

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Don't overlook that a producer already has in mind what he or she is seeking, whether we agree or not. They do this everyday, all day, we don't. Before they even begin a session they have an idea. Yes, a Steel can alter the idea, that is true, but thats not our call but yes it should be discussed.

Our view of the "landscape" may be exactly right or, it can be exactly wrong.

Sessions are really fun and can be very challenging as well . Even if they just want very basic simplicity .

And yes, I totally agree, if we hear something that requires an emotion then certainly play it, discuss it, make it happen. But also be reminded that unless you are part of the initial tracking there will be no SPOT for that added minor phrase or emotional phrasing.

More often than not, almost 100% in my case, I am called in well after the initial rhythm tracks are completed. I play over what already exists, there is no changing that. This is most common for local small studio's. Playing as part of the initial arrangement tracking team is not the same as playing a session on top of what is already tracked. That concrete is cured.

Also never discount that the producer we are working with may have had previous experiences with other players. That can work as a good thing or a bad thing.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

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