| Author |
Topic: Playing without finger picks |
Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 19 Jun 2017 7:05 am |
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I've been learning C6th and finding I'm sometimes more comfortable with just a thumb pick and no finger picks.
I remember that Bobbe Seymour played this way too.
Sometimes I try to play without a thumb pick also, but that is more difficult because of the attack angle of my thumb.
Allows me to play chords with 4 or 5 notes, but know it's not normal.
Are there any other players who use this method? Any advise on this?
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2017 7:52 pm
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I'm an older pedal steel guitar player, and my advice to new players is to learn to use the finger picks.... I too have know some killer guitar/pedal steel artists, who used only a thumb pick on steel...
My prior advice still stands... learn to use the finger picks.
As for bigger chords, I have always used a thumb pick, and 3 finger picks... and that's a big chord.
_________________
Dave Wren
'96 Carter U12,7X7; 1936 7 string National; Line 6 HX Stomp; Quilter TT-15/TB202; Quilter "Steelaire"; DV Mark "GH 250"with 15" 1501 BW; Boss "Katana" 100 Head w/Line 6 Cab; Telonics VP. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 19 Jun 2017 8:58 pm Been doing that
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Been doing that for 40 years now.
I'm also no spring chicken, Almost 70 now.
The 6th tunings are new to me...
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Frank Agliata
From:
Jersey Shore, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2017 5:26 am
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Being only a rookie on this instrument I'm hardly in a position to render advice. But as a lifelong musician I still can have an opinion!
It was very difficult for me to get used to fingerpicks, but I persevered and stuck with it. Now I can't play without them!
Having said that, the OP is also an old veteran player. If thumb pick only on C6 makes him connect better and feel more comfortable and inspired . . go for it! 
_________________
GFI Expo X1, Melbert 8, Rukavina 6
always learning |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2017 7:35 am
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Playing a steel guitar without picks is like trying to eat a steak with chopsticks, it can be done but not as well.  |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 20 Jun 2017 7:49 am
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Whatever the player wants to do is OK. But I will say, I have never seen a player live that played with no picks that I liked their tone. Some were very irritating.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 20 Jun 2017 8:03 am
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| David Wren wrote: |
| I have always used a thumb pick, and 3 finger picks... |
I'm only a few years in but I made that decision right at the start. I realised that I would never master the pick-two-rake-two technique for the 4-note grips on the C6, and the extra pick is handy on the top two strings of the E9.
James, it's easy to misinterpret Buddy's comments as advocacy for a pick-free approach - I did! But on re-reading it I understand that he's acknowledging the busted nail as what set him on the right path.
I agree with Richard that the way to the sound the audience expects is with picks, however "connected" you feel naked.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Jun 2017 4:45 pm
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| Wow, I have something in common with Buddy Emmons - I went back to fingerpicks after a busted nail. Now to work on the rest ... |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 9:49 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| Playing a steel guitar without picks is like trying to eat a steak with chopsticks, it can be done but not as well. |
That's a great analogy - when I try to use picks, all I hear *is* the picks, like a fork clattering on a plate 
All I can say is - after decades of fingerstyle guitar and bass, using picks is like learning to walk again. I also seem to lose all my mutes - I have ten of 'em when I use fingers - one on each side of four fingers and a thumb. I probably over-mute but it seems punchier and the phrasing more defined when I do.
The downside is the very real risk of nail damage. That's not funny at all. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 9:54 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| Whatever the player wants to do is OK. But I will say, I have never seen a player live that played with no picks that I liked their tone. Some were very irritating. |
I have never had any complaints about my tone. I don't think I play well enough for it to be at issue
I am hesitant to put up a clip, but it seems called for.
Here's a rehearsal recording - we print, you decide!
https://soundcloud.com/les-cargill/stilldointime |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 12:44 pm
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| Les Cargill wrote: |
| I have never had any complaints about my tone. I don't think I play well enough for it to be at issue |
 That is the funniest (and deepest) thing I have heard for ages. I shall certainly repeat it (and of course give you credit).
As for your rehearsal tape, the steel playing naturally fits the mood without prompting any enquiries about what picks, guitar, amp, pedal etc. are being used. It just sounds normal (which is a compliment in case you're not sure)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 2:28 pm
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| Ian, I could not think of a higher compliment. It's the eternal struggle of being there and at the same time, not being in the way. |
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James Flaherty
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 3:38 pm
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| Great playing and a great song. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 5:26 pm
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I read the Buddy Emmons comments to mean "whatever floats your boat?"
The issues are noise, tone and volume. Yes, they do have a slight "click", but the increase in volume drowns out the noise. And this is one commonality I see among the best guys - they play HARD, really dig in. Of course the picks are much brighter, but if you're in a war* with a "Tele guy" the bite is helpful. Yes, I KNOW we kind, sharing, loving, hippie leftovers believe in democracy and "playing for the song." So, prepare to get your head blown off by the fascist "Tele guy" and the John Bonham-wannabe drummer. You're Paris and he's Adolph Hitler.
What I'm saying here is that every situation is different. Playing in a large-ish, seven-piece band is a different gig than playing in a four-piece, and playing in your living room is WAY different than going off to war. Playing in a four-hour, three-set bar band, you MAY rip your finger tips to shreds because you do get all inspired. Extremely fast, hard finger movements - that go 3/16" and STOP - it's a wierd, like, TWITCHY thing. When I went to the surgeon to have my right ring-finger sliced to fix my trigger-finger, he even ASKED me "Do you fingerpick on a guitar?" Dang.
Practicing four or five hours, and working on playing from very soft to very loud with your right hand alone - don't your fingertips HURT like the devil when it's over? I don't like picks a whole lot, but you may NEED them to alleviate the finger-fry. Once you tear them up a few times the picks come creeping back in on ya.
*(Yes, I KNOW. Sit him down and do the heart-to-heart "For the benefit of the MUSIC we must stay balanced ." Now prepare, you're Rome and he's Atilla the Hun. Get your head blown off.  You could SHOOT his amplifier...) |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 6:44 pm
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That is a great deal of hard-won wisdom, David.
No, my fingers don't hurt. I have - wow, it's forty years this year - decades of electric bass calluses.
And the only time I've had nail/finger damage is from six-string. It's no fun, but you get through it.
But you're absolutely right - picks are much safer.
If I played more than an hour every day (I'm barely even practicing any more - I'm in a total rut on the instrument and I don't believe I'll ever find another band that wants steel ) , I'd doubtless have to take them on full time. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2017 6:53 pm
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| Also, David - I own a 1000 watt 2x15 bass amp. If Tele-assassin wants an arms race, I will meet on on the field of battle, prepared |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 8:00 am
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| Quote: |
| Here's a rehearsal recording - we print, you decide! |
Since you specifically "challenged" me to listen to your clip and decide.
I still stand by my original post. The tone is real "blah" to me. Although I admit that your tone is much better that the players I have seen play with no picks. But I wonder if the better tone was from whatever you recorded with. Still, what you played in the recording was nice.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 9:33 am No finger picks here
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Here's a Bill Ferguson recorded clip of my buddy, mentor and now departed Boogie Sherrard from the Smoky Mountain Jamboree in the 90's playing Room Full of Roses on C6.
Boogie used a straight pick ala most guitar pickers and bare fingers/nails for the rest of the grips including those big Chalker things. No finger picks. https://youtu.be/8bVaLL5RMYg |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 2:11 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Here's a rehearsal recording - we print, you decide! |
Since you specifically "challenged" me to listen to your clip and decide.
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I didn't mean you directly - I really meant the assembled. But I could see how you'd see it that way - I wasn't awfully careful about how I worded it.
| Quote: |
I still stand by my original post. The tone is real "blah" to me. Although I admit that your tone is much better that the players I have seen play with no picks. But I wonder if the better tone was from whatever you recorded with. Still, what you played in the recording was nice. |
I appreciate the feedback. That's an old MSA U12 with a Supersustain humbucker thru a Steelaire. EQ is both the treble and upper mid knob *down* quite a bit. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 4:39 pm
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Sorry Les. I misunderstood.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2017 2:33 pm
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I play without any picks sometimes -never with only a thumbpick - I tried it but the thumb overpowered the fingers.
It depends on what I'm playing. There are some styles/tunes that sound better tonewise without the sharper attack of picks.
I reach the same "crappy playing" equilibrium" regardless of my pick/pickless configuration.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2017 5:10 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| Sorry Les. I misunderstood. |
Richard, you shared your wisdom in a very cordial and collegial manner. I see nothing to apologize for. And thanks for that. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Jun 2017 1:37 am
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while certainly there are no rules, but there are indeed differences in dynamics and tones. Additionally there are differences in single string attack and speed of alternate style picking.
It's kinda amusing using E as a reference to one or the other as each time we have seen E perform he always wore his picks !
I still have a few students and always recommend using finger picks. Sure they are odd and seem to be out of the comfort zone but the entire instrument is odd and out of the comfort zone 
There is no right or wrong but there are big differences.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 29 Jun 2017 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 28 Jun 2017 2:04 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| ...the entire instrument is odd and out of the comfort zone... |
Thanks Tony - so it's not just me then 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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