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Topic: Raising the E's |
Stephen Williams
From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2017 9:09 pm
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What is the purpose? You can get a C# major chord but other than that what am I missing? |
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Dale Rottacker
From: Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 2:57 am
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I’m no theorist, but with your A pedal & F lever you also get a Major Chord 3 frets up from the open position... with AB pedal you get an Augmented chord 1 back of the open position... B pedal and F lever gives you, I don’t know what it’s called but it’s pretty... Strings 986 and 5 with the F Lever will repeat every 3 frets... Like I said, I’m NOT a Music Theorist, but these are just a few of the ways I use them and there are many many more. _________________ Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Will Cowell
From: Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 3:05 am
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The E's lower and E's raise are really, really useful, Steve, for a variety of chords and scale notes. It's worth remembering that the steel community would not have stuck to them if they were not worth having.
PM me if you would like a copy of my E9 cheat sheet, it may help. _________________ Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 3:27 am
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I didn't have this change in my first pedal steel life (I owned lots of 3+1 guitars back then), so I am not one of those "couldn't live without this change" players. But I find myself using it more and more nowadays. In that C# (or, as I thing of it, three frets above open) position, you get a lot of unique voicing and melodic possibilities.
1. Move it up to the fourth fret, and that F major chord is IV above the C chord you get with A+B at at fret 3. (Or, conversely, the F is I and the C is V.) This can be a useful position pairing for sliding back and forth between two closely related chords.
2. You can rock the A pedal from scale degree b7 up to your root.
3. You have a run in thirds down from scale degree 5 to 3 ("k" = the e raise knee lever):
Tab: |
F# 0
D# 0
G# 0
E 0k 0k
B 0A
G#
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Or, thinking horizontally:
Tab: |
F#
D#
G# 12 10 9
E 12k 10k 9
B
G#
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or
Tab: |
F#
D#
G#
E 4 2 0k
B 4A 2A 0A
G#
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4. You have a diminished-seventh chord when the E-F lever is used along with an open D natural at the 9th string (9-8k-6-5)or half-lowered 2nd string (6-5-4k-2L).
5. You have an augmented chord when the E-F lever is added to A and B pedals (8k-6B-5A; 5A-4k-3B).
There are also loads of possibilities for making harmonized thirds scales in major or minor by pairing strong 4 with 5 or 3 and applying pedal A or B as needed. And I'm sure there are a dozen other uses for the E-F change I haven't even figured out, but others will add. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 3:30 am
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Rule of thumb: if you take too long writing a convoluted reply, others will have already posted the same answer in a more succinct and direct way. |
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Douglas Schuch
From: Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 3:36 am
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Stephen,
Here are a couple of samples in the very first stanzas of a song I am working on: Doug Sahm's "Cowboy Peyton Place". The steeler is Tommy Detamore, and the tab was done by Jeff Garden. Here is a link to the tab and there a further link to the song on Youtube:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=283143
In the intro, just before the fiddles come in, there are a series of slides up, each going higher, on strings 4+5. The third slide up ends on fret 6 with the A pedal and F lever engaged. You see this in the second line of the first page of Jeff's tab. There is an extended version of this lick at the start of the solo, again using the F-lever.
Next, in between the second and third lines of lyrics in the song, Tommy does a nice descending lick on strings 3+4 that uses the F lever. This is found on the second line of the second page of the tab.
The steel on this song just blows me away - I have suddenly become a big fan of Tommy D.! _________________ Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Dale Rottacker
From: Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 6:48 am
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Douglas Schuch wrote: |
Stephen,
Here are a couple of samples in the very first stanzas of a song I am working on: Doug Sahm's "Cowboy Peyton Place". The steeler is Tommy Detamore, and the tab was done by Jeff Garden. Here is a link to the tab and there a further link to the song on Youtube:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=283143
In the intro, just before the fiddles come in, there are a series of slides up, each going higher, on strings 4+5. The third slide up ends on fret 6 with the A pedal and F lever engaged. You see this in the second line of the first page of Jeff's tab. There is an extended version of this lick at the start of the solo, again using the F-lever.
Next, in between the second and third lines of lyrics in the song, Tommy does a nice descending lick on strings 3+4 that uses the F lever. This is found on the second line of the second page of the tab.
The steel on this song just blows me away - I have suddenly become a big fan of Tommy D.! |
Everything Tommy does is worthy of learning... and Jeff presents it all perfectly. _________________ Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 7:22 am
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The E to F raised is also used to get a 7th chord. |
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Jim Kennedy
From: Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 7:25 am
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Tom Bradshaw's chord book, available on his site for free, covers all of the basic chord possibilities of an e9 3&4. Well worth the read for both beginners and seasoned players. _________________ ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Charlie McDonald
From: out of the blue
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 7:56 am
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Tom Bradshaw's work develops chord structure on E9 in a way that makes sense. Chord building. I concur with Jim. |
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Stephen Williams
From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 1:02 pm
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Thanks so much for all the thoughtful replies. Truly Awesome.
Since i don't have an E9 co-pedant but some version of it I'll have to translate e.g. what levers are what.
BUT I do know that it is an important change, I just put it on my PSG. |
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Andy DePaule
From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 1:13 pm Serious?
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Seriously, raising and lowering the E's a half tone are my most used knee levers.
First off it give you the next inversions 3 frets up from the chords without pedals.
A very smooth passing as you go from the non pedal open chord to the pedals sown chord 7 great up.
As Erv said, another 7th, can't have too many places to have 7th chords.
From the open go up 3 frets while engaging pedal A and the knee that raises the E strings. After you get there release the A pedal for a great 7th. From there you can slide up 2 frets to the open 4th or down 1 fret releasing the knee and adding the B pedal to get the 5th and then down 2 more releasing the Pedal A and lowering the E's by the other knee to get the 5th chord as another 7th.
And a whole lot more.
Back one fret from open and engage that knee for your diminished...
Add that knee to the AB pedals for an augmented 5th.
I'd guess I use those two knee levers 10 time for every time I might use my other 3 knee levers. If I only had two knee levers it would be those. With those and the AB pedals I'd think you can play 85% of what you have heard. _________________ Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Andy DePaule
From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 1:18 pm Serious?
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If I only had one knee lever I'd have a hard time deciding if I should get the E to F or the E to Eb. It's that good.
If I only had 1 lever I guess I'd use it to raise the 4th and lower the 8th each a half tone.
Lloyd green and some other pros have that but don't lower the 4th at all.
But I ain't no Lloyd. _________________ Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2017 1:22 pm
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With the F lever and the A pedal, you have all 3 voicings of a major chord on the same strings. The top 2 strings also provide scale tones in those positions. release the A pedal and you have a (rootless) 7th chord or a diminished chord.
FWIW, I have a Sho-Bud Maverick with only one lever, and that's it. To me, it's the most important knee lever. _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Tony Prior
From: Charlotte NC
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Posted 17 Jun 2017 1:30 am
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just look at strings 8 + 5 alone
There is so much melody on those two strings with the E raise, E lower ( string 8 ) and raise and lower ( string 5) that it will take us a lifetime to find it all.
string 8, natural, raise and lower ( two levers)
String 5 natural ,raise ( A ped) and lower ( X lever)
Note:
The X lever ( 5 lower) although an excellent addition is the one we could live without if need be , as when seeking melody with 5 and 8, we can always back up the bar one fret for the 5 lower and raise the E ( string 8 ) for the redundant phrase.
And yes, all the above stuff is true, scales , chords etc...Root chord open position, to 4 frets up with the A ped and E raise lever is not an option, it's fundamental.
Go yee forward on the journey ! _________________ Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2017 7:29 am
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If you use the F lever in conjunction with the A and B pedals, you get an augmented chord.
I wish someone would explain to me how to get a demented chord.
Or maybe they're only available on a banjo. |
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Andy DePaule
From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 17 Jun 2017 8:15 am Erv, Demented chord!
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Erv Niehaus wrote: |
If you use the F lever in conjunction with the A and B pedals, you get an augmented chord.
I wish someone would explain to me how to get a demented chord.
Or maybe they're only available on a banjo. |
It takes a special kind of guy to play "Demented" chords.
I know how, but not sure I could tab it out for you?
Note; Demented chords don't go well with church music, but are fine for closing time at the local bar when you've picked up the most homley looking drunk gal in the place. _________________ Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2017 8:26 am
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Andy,
You've got that wrong!
All the girls get prettier at closing time. |
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Pat Chong
From: New Mexico, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2017 12:14 pm
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Hello Steve,
The A-F combo adds another "home fret" (where you start to play).
There are 2 "home frets" you can start with:
No pedal and A+B pedal home frets.
That said, you have 5 frets back or 7 frets forward before you can reach another home fret, and that is too much fret room. However, when you add the A-F combo, it reduces the space, adding another home fret.
Instead of 0(start), 7(frets up), 5(more frets up), (12 frets to the next octave), it now becomes 0, 3, 4, 5 (next octave). So you have 3 home frets between octaves (what I am familiar with).
And then there is "half-pedaling" the A pedal (raising the B to C instead of C#). For example, the A-F combo at the 3rd fret will give you E major. Half pedal A and you get G#m (3m) at the same fret. 2 frets back and it F#m (2m).
That's the interesting thing about the steel guitar: being able to do the same thing in so many different ways!
...................Pat
Last edited by Pat Chong on 17 Jun 2017 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andy DePaule
From: Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 17 Jun 2017 1:08 pm She Ain't much to see....
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"She Ain't much to see, but she looks good to me through the bottom of a glass"
From a Hank Thompson song. _________________ Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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David Mitchell
From: Tyler, Texas
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 9:39 am
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I made a video for a guy that asked me that same question. Many uses but here is just a simple one. The E raises and lowers are the oldest levers on a pedal steel guitar.
https://youtu.be/qReN7iV5TdI |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 3:03 pm
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Here's an interesting little chart:
Tab: |
1 4 5 1 4 5 1 4 5 1
G C D G C D G C D G
3 3AB 5AB 6AF 8 10 10AB 11AF 13AF 15
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_________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rick Abbott
From: Indiana, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 3:39 pm
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b0b wrote: |
Here's an interesting little chart:
Tab: |
1 4 5 1 4 5 1 4 5 1
G C D G C D G C D G
3 3AB 5AB 6AF 8 10 10AB 11AF 13AF 15
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And if you work diligently forward and backward with this with a track you can find the melody and do some fine things.
A+B+F = a whole lot of steel. Like others have stated. _________________ RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Kevin Fix
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2017 4:55 pm F Lever
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Could not image a life without the "F" and "E" knees. I use those two knees constantly without thinking of it. To me it's like using a "A, B, and C' pedals. Or the 5th and 6th pedals on the back neck. |
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Jason Duguay
From: Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2017 6:28 pm
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This is good stuff. _________________ Ralph. Mooney. |
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