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Topic: Why don't more modern PSGs have a tone control? |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 18 Jun 2017 12:24 pm |
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
The tone control will suck high end, much like a passive volume pedal. Therefore, like the Emmons, there should be a bypass switch.
Some heavyweights, Jim Loessberg and Jay Dee Maness come to mind, prefer the sound of the Emmons guitar with both the passive tone controls and the passive volume pedal. And who are we to challenge their preferences? 
Personally, I don't mind a passive volume pedal and occasionally use a Goodrich when playing non-pedal steel. But my onstage preference for pedal steel guitar is the Telonics pedal, and absent that, the Hilton. |
I also use, with my Infinity, one of the passive tone controls that Stu Schulman mentioned, one made by his friend. Works good.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Jun 2017 6:41 pm
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May be seen as "pure semantics" by some, but passive tone controls, and passive volume controls, coupled to a PU, do not so much "suck" high frequencies, as they alter the PU's resonance points and characteristics - compared to having an active buffer as first stage after the PU.
That's because the passive load of a tone control directly affects the RCL circuit that a high impedance coil - the PU - is. The PU and the tone control become ONE RCL circuit, not one circuit followed by the other. Same thing with the PU followed directly by a passive VP, and entire cable-run up to and including the input components in the first active circuit in a sound-chain - whatever unit that active circuit is part of.
Depending on a PU's impedance and other inherent characteristics, a passive tone control with given Resistance and Capacitance values will not have exactly the same effect on one PU as it has on another PU, simply because altering one factor in an RCL circuit (in this case the PU itself) alters the entire passive circuit.
Tone controls AFTER an active stage - in an amp or wherever - do of course not affect (or become part of) a PU-centered RCL circuit. Thus, active tone controls do not - and can not - have the same effect on tone characteristics as a passive tone control coupled directly to the PU, no matter how active tone controls are designed.
So, personal tonal preferences aside, EQs in amps can not emulate a passive tone control at the PU, nor can passive tone controls at the PU emulate active ones further down a sound-chain. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 23 Jun 2017 1:38 am
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Mike,It took a very long time for my friend to make me a few extra boxes,in fact it took so long he couldn't remember what was in the original...it also has a bypass switch which is very helpful,I no longer live near the guy who made the boxes,I gave away the last two,one to Herb Steiner,and one to Gibson Hartwell in Missoula,If I can find a guy where I'm now living in the Hudson Valley I would like to have some more made,Just have to find the right guy!
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 26 Jun 2017 11:22 am
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Mike P.I just sent you an email,I found a guy in Woodstock who might be able to build a copy of my tone box,I have an appointment this Friday morning and I'll let you know how it's looking!
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 27 Jun 2017 3:57 am
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This is my little tone box,Fits into all of my steel guitars,It has a bypass switch,lost without it...I'm meeting with a guy this Friday who should be able to make some more.
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Michael Coggins
From:
Sligo, Ireland
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Posted 27 Jun 2017 1:57 pm
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I added a tone control to my Stage One VP.
I can adjust with the side of my foot.
Handy if you have 2 or more instruments sharing the same amp settings.
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Mullen Royal Precision SD10, 2002 Fender Telecaster, Alden Mandocaster, Boss Katana 100-212, Stage One V/P, Tom Bradshaw Resonator Pedal. Wampler Paisley Drive, Wampler Ego Compressor, Boss Super Chorus, Simble Overdrive. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2017 5:17 pm
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I'm toying with the idea of wiring my tone knob on my Emmons SKH like the early Peavey T-60 guitars had.
Some genius "in my book" at PV wired the tone control so when it was totally turned up, it used the one lug on the pot to ground out one of the coils in the humbucker. Of course this turned the pickup into a single coil. BTW, I have a BL-705 in my SKH. In the Peavey, turning the tone control to about eight or so, the humbucker started kicking back in. This was incredibly versatile. From 8 to 1 acted just like any tone control. The down side; it was too sophisticated for the average player who kept his tone wide open; making people wrongly assume the guitar was anemic. Roll the tone controls back a little and Baaam! Wow! Les Paul. RP
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 3 Jul 2017 9:54 am
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Anyone know what cap and pot values would be good for a PSG tone control? I've got some extra pots. Maybe I'll take the classic P-bass wiring schematic and make myself a control box...
I've been thinking quite a bit about onboard knobs recently.
In the room where I practice, I have the amp (MMan H&H) situated about 5 feet behind me. It's just far enough that I can't reach it easily. I need to be able to adjust the volume for regular daytime playing and extra quiet playing after the kids are asleep. Unfortunatley the MM is made for high clean volume so my desired range is all in the first 1-2 notches on the gain knob and it's a bit touchy. Also, I found that I missed the ability to tame the highs a bit as I often do when playing bass guitar.
As much as I understand the value of sending as clean and strong a signal as possible, I often found myself wanting at-hand tone and volume controls. For me the answer was a cheap little Berhinger mini-mixer that I found at Goodwill. I set it on the stand next to me and voila! I now have a bit of tone shaping and full volume control.
It's not perfect, as I'm sure it's coloring my tone a bit, it's roughly the size of a small multi-effects box and it has to be set somewhere, but if does the job and I may even use it live as I'll probably be playing crappy open-mics and such with no PA support so I'll need to be able to quickly control my tone. |
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Lefty
From:
Grayson, Ga.
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Posted 3 Jul 2017 1:38 pm
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My Excels have them and I find them useful. It allows me to just take the edge off of the E9 for some songs or dial up a warm C6th tone. I never thought about it with my Sho-Buds until I got the first Excel. It is handy, but there are work-arounds as listed above.
Lefty |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 3 Jul 2017 2:53 pm
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| Ron Pruter wrote: |
I'm toying with the idea of wiring my tone knob on my Emmons SKH like the early Peavey T-60 guitars had.
Some genius "in my book" at PV wired the tone control so when it was totally turned up, it used the one lug on the pot to ground out one of the coils in the humbucker. Of course this turned the pickup into a single coil. BTW, I have a BL-705 in my SKH. In the Peavey, turning the tone control to about eight or so, the humbucker started kicking back in. This was incredibly versatile. From 8 to 1 acted just like any tone control. The down side; it was too sophisticated for the average player who kept his tone wide open; making people wrongly assume the guitar was anemic. Roll the tone controls back a little and Baaam! Wow! Les Paul. RP |
This is kind of genius. My T-40 is one of my favorite basses and it's wired exactly the same. One of the best sounding and most versatile passive basses you can buy.
Also one of the heaviest. |
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2017 5:43 am Stu's tone control
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The tone control that Stu gave me gets tons of use. Thanks Stu! It stays in my seat and is just the thing for one of my guitars. It has a three position switch that will select between total bypass and two other capacitors that work with a tone control pot. I misplaced it last week and was grumpy and kicking myself for a few days.
One of my main guitars is a ShoBud Professional and that thing has such a warm rich sound that I can get all the tone control I need with my hands--no need for a pot on that thing, ever. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 19 Sep 2017 10:48 am
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The guy up in Woodstock didn't work out"Too expensive"but today I got in touch with my friend in Anchorage who is having his son build me a few hopefully?
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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