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Author Topic:  Excel resto project
David Higginbotham


From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
Post Posted 11 May 2017 5:02 pm     Reply with quote

$1450 for a nice case and leg bag! The rest???? Wow! I too have purchased a couple of steels and some other equipment from Billy years back and all was well. I can't understand why he would do this to anyone but it was blatant and intentional to say the least.

Damir, you've been taken advantage of before for even more than this and you have taken both incidents very kind heartedly. Kudos to you for being such a nice guy! I can safely say most of us wouldn't have.
Dave


Last edited by David Higginbotham on 12 May 2017 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 11 May 2017 8:48 pm     Reply with quote

David Mason wrote:
That "Excel" logo - the one on a corroding metal plate - looks unlike anything on the website, new or older model.

That's what I thought, too. Does anyone know where that logo plate came from?
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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 12 May 2017 4:22 am     Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
David Mason wrote:
That "Excel" logo - the one on a corroding metal plate - looks unlike anything on the website, new or older model.

That's what I thought, too. Does anyone know where that logo plate came from?


Bob, that plate was a homemade mess... it's now a trophy in my shop!
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Charlie McDonald


From:
out of the blue
Post Posted 12 May 2017 5:10 am     Reply with quote

Priceless badge.

There's a hint of similarity, the horizontal mark at the 'e'...




... no wait, it's a strike, as if saying 'Not an Excel.'
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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 12 May 2017 5:14 am     .. Reply with quote


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Edward Rhea


From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
Post Posted 12 May 2017 5:58 am     Reply with quote

There you go Mike...I cropped it so you or Damir could have a new avatar...
Razz
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Charlie McDonald


From:
out of the blue
Post Posted 12 May 2017 6:03 am     Reply with quote

Yeah, looks a lot better, Edward.
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steve takacs


From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh
Post Posted 12 May 2017 2:53 pm     Consistent excel pedal steel and camera issue Reply with quote

Someone did not have a camera in 2011 to show Excel photos. See last part of this post:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208656&highlight=

Steve t
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 12 May 2017 3:41 pm     Reply with quote

Mitsuo is shipping new original "Excel" decals as we speak .... and Monday I'm getting brand new either 705 or 710 pick up...
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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 12 May 2017 5:17 pm     Re: Consistent excel pedal steel and camera issue Reply with quote

steve takacs wrote:
Someone did not have a camera in 2011 to show Excel photos. See last part of this post:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208656&highlight=

Steve t


It's the ole "I don't have working camera" trick! Every 12 year old and up has a dang phone with a camera. Like I said, blatant rip off...
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Scott Duckworth


From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
Post Posted 13 May 2017 3:40 am     Reply with quote

No picture(s) no purchase... period!

Damir, I hate you're going through this, but maybe with the story of the rebuild, and the fact it will be a top notch guitar when finished, may help you get the right price for it. At least a buyer will know exactly what they are getting.
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 13 May 2017 8:08 am     Reply with quote

Scott Duckworth wrote:
No picture(s) no purchase... period!

Damir, I hate you're going through this, but maybe with the story of the rebuild, and the fact it will be a top notch guitar when finished, may help you get the right price for it. At least a buyer will know exactly what they are getting.


Scott, after this guitar gets done, I'm not sure it will be for sale .... it will have much more time and money invested in it, then what I can get for it if I want to sell... cabinet is on its way to one of the best steel guitar shops in the country, to be refinished in beautiful new formica ... when it comes back it will be flocked, and put together with all the parts buffed, and polished, new knee levers, and brand new pick up.... between the parts and labor, and what I paid for it, we will have over $3000 invested in it ...
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Bill L. Wilson


From:
Oklahoma, USA
Post Posted 13 May 2017 10:18 am     Always Buyer Beware. Reply with quote

Well, I'm like everyone else, I am truly shocked at what I saw in those pics, and I'm pretty sure that a trip down to Blues Country would be in short order. Some folks are just conniving Son of a Guns, and need to be Slapt Up Side the Head. Having gotten that out of my system, Damir, you're doing the right thing, forgiveness is always the best policy in the long run. And this may turn out to be one of the best steels you've ever owned. Blessings to you my friend!
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 13 May 2017 11:44 am     Reply with quote

thank you Bill for kind words, I was really never mad at Billy, why he did what he did I don't know, but reselling this guitar in condition it was when I got it, to a new player was something I thought it would be pretty low thing to do.... guitar in condition I got it,wasn't worth anything, it was a solid piece of junk.... but I didn't even have time to think about what to do with it, when Mike jumped in, and offered to help...and between two of us, me flnincing parts, and anything else, and Mike offering his help and his shop this guitar is on its way to turn into an awesome instrument.... and we got some help from some other awesome people which we may announce who they are after the project is done, if they are ok with that.... this is not big name, vintage guitar, and it is clear to me that from the profit and business stand point, this project doesn't make any sense...but I just didn't have heart to let this little guitar go.... no musical instrument deserves to end up like that....
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J R Rose


From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
Post Posted 13 May 2017 8:24 pm     Reply with quote

Just Unbelievable!! Someone had to work really hard to do this. It looks kinda like colored spray foam? To know that it is a fellow forum member of many years is just heartbreaking. I have brought several guitars here off the forum and some had imperfections that had not been pointed out but I was reminded it was a USED guitar. But nothing like this. WOW!! Looks like Mike is getting it to look like a guitar again. Way to go Mike. My last transaction I only lost $250.00 so nothing like Damir is losing. Good Luck Damir. J.R.
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Damir Besic


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post Posted 14 May 2017 1:54 pm     Reply with quote

thank you JR ... with used guitars there is always some scratches, or some modifications done by previous owners, but almost always is nothing out of ordinary .... however, this was little more "modifications" then what I expected lol
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Susan Alcorn


From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
Post Posted 14 May 2017 2:03 pm     Reply with quote

That poor tortured Excel . . .
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 14 May 2017 5:19 pm     Reply with quote

I don't understand.

How could somebody do that to an instrument? And how could anybody sell it in that condition, and then act like such an (unmentionable body part) afterwards? Especially in this small community where we all know each other?
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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 15 May 2017 7:20 am     ... Reply with quote

Mike Perlowin wrote:
I don't understand.

How could somebody do that to an instrument? And how could anybody sell it in that condition, and then act like such an (unmentionable body part) afterwards? Especially in this small community where we all know each other?


I know Mike, I really can't figure it out either. I mean there were things under that guitar that were pure butchery! I am headed to Bud's polishing today at lunch to drop the end plates, pedal rack etc etc... I sent the body out for mica as there was just no saving it. I wanted a real Pro to do the body as I'm not really setup like I should be to do mica ( future YES)... I figure in a few weeks I will start the re-assembly and this poor girl will come back to life for Mr Damir.

I have thought about this a hundred different ways and cannot find a reason for both the damage and the dishonest sale. I would like to see Mr Carr make this right and fully pay for this restoration but I'm not holding my breath...
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 15 May 2017 7:29 am     response from Billy Carr Reply with quote

Billy Carr's forum account has been suspended, so he can't post in his defense. This morning I received this email from him:
Billy Carr wrote:
In reference to the sale of the S-10 Excel by me to Damir, I do understand it appeared that I purposely misrepresented the guitar. I didn’t want to tell him that I do certain things to my personal guitars to improve tone, sustain and playability. I will disclose this much to you about what’s usually done, if needed and where the ideas came from. Normally, I use a clear lacquer to seal the bottom of the cabinets unless there covered with felt, like Rains or Emmons. The rear apron is also sealed. On my current guitar, a S-10 Desert Rose, it wasn’t necessary to seal anything since the cabinet was solid. I have changed the pickup from the GL Eon to a Telonics 206 to tame the highs down a little. String separation is better also. By adding a burgundy color to the clearcoat lacquer on the Excel that seemed to surprise some folks. I should’ve stayed with the clear. The pad cover. I added a pad to the guitar when I got it. The foam inside was not comfortable, so I removed it and left the cover, in case someone down the road wanted a pad. I had changed the Excel pu to a GL 10-1 when I got the guitar. The Excel was a single coil with hum which I don’t like. The Excel was serviced once a month when I changed strings. Each pull rod was positioned not to touch or rub anything. Guitar never broke a string and had no tuning issues. The new case I ordered from Mullen was a little to wide, so I glued foam in it to secure the guitar. I didn’t like fingerprints on the knee levers, so I painted them black. I had planned to change the mica to black but decided to sale it when I found the Desert Rose. The DR came out of the case ready to play. Back to the Excel, I had read several articles by the Big E, one of which was loosing the screws that held aluminum necks in place. I just moved each one a very little, not even noticeable. The guitar came to life and sounded like a different guitar. Sealing the body underneath was an idea I got from an ex-uncle Bobby Bowman. Balancing the pull rods , I got from Bud Carter. I also spent over a year testing different things on a Carter Starter to improve sustain. I won’t get into that but the CS was nicknamed “HotRod”. I sold the Excel for only 1450.00 to give Damir something to sale a beginner that was already set up. I didn’t get into all of the changes on the guitar because I didn’t want anyone using what I do to enhance tone, etc. In the future, I’ll buy another camera and make sure plenty of close up pics are taken on guitars, etc. Thanks for your consideration and I do hope this clears up any misunderstandings. The Excel can be seen and heard on the Brandon Opry website anytime. It wasn’t butchered.

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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 15 May 2017 7:43 am     Re: response from Billy Carr Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
Billy Carr's forum account has been suspended, so he can't post in his defense. This morning I received this email from him:
Billy Carr wrote:
In reference to the sale of the S-10 Excel by me to Damir, I do understand it appeared that I purposely misrepresented the guitar. I didn’t want to tell him that I do certain things to my personal guitars to improve tone, sustain and playability. I will disclose this much to you about what’s usually done, if needed and where the ideas came from. Normally, I use a clear lacquer to seal the bottom of the cabinets unless there covered with felt, like Rains or Emmons. The rear apron is also sealed. On my current guitar, a S-10 Desert Rose, it wasn’t necessary to seal anything since the cabinet was solid. I have changed the pickup from the GL Eon to a Telonics 206 to tame the highs down a little. String separation is better also. By adding a burgundy color to the clearcoat lacquer on the Excel that seemed to surprise some folks. I should’ve stayed with the clear. The pad cover. I added a pad to the guitar when I got it. The foam inside was not comfortable, so I removed it and left the cover, in case someone down the road wanted a pad. I had changed the Excel pu to a GL 10-1 when I got the guitar. The Excel was a single coil with hum which I don’t like. The Excel was serviced once a month when I changed strings. Each pull rod was positioned not to touch or rub anything. Guitar never broke a string and had no tuning issues. The new case I ordered from Mullen was a little to wide, so I glued foam in it to secure the guitar. I didn’t like fingerprints on the knee levers, so I painted them black. I had planned to change the mica to black but decided to sale it when I found the Desert Rose. The DR came out of the case ready to play. Back to the Excel, I had read several articles by the Big E, one of which was loosing the screws that held aluminum necks in place. I just moved each one a very little, not even noticeable. The guitar came to life and sounded like a different guitar. Sealing the body underneath was an idea I got from an ex-uncle Bobby Bowman. Balancing the pull rods , I got from Bud Carter. I also spent over a year testing different things on a Carter Starter to improve sustain. I won’t get into that but the CS was nicknamed “HotRod”. I sold the Excel for only 1450.00 to give Damir something to sale a beginner that was already set up. I didn’t get into all of the changes on the guitar because I didn’t want anyone using what I do to enhance tone, etc. In the future, I’ll buy another camera and make sure plenty of close up pics are taken on guitars, etc. Thanks for your consideration and I do hope this clears up any misunderstandings. The Excel can be seen and heard on the Brandon Opry website anytime. It wasn’t butchered.


Thank you Bob but all that is total BS!!!! He should have disclosed everything in detail and provided pictures. He clearly ripped off Damir plain and simple.

BTW, the original lacquer was still under the massive amounts of goo...

"I had read several articles by the Big E, one of which was loosing the screws that held aluminum necks in place. I just moved each one a very little, not even noticeable"

Carr, the neck screws were very tight and covered in paint goo! I had to grind and dig the paint out and barely was able to remove the screws to get the dang neck off.

" I didn’t get into all of the changes on the guitar because I didn’t want anyone using what I do to enhance tone, etc."

Again, all BS. Don't worry Carr I'm sure no one will destroy their steel and use your changes LMAO!!!
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Infinity D-10 9x8, 73 Emmons Lacquer/wood neck D10, Telonics TCA-500c & Pedal, NV400, 64 Twin (JBLs) Visit my website www.p2pamps.com
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Storm Rosson


From:
Silver City, NM. USA
Post Posted 15 May 2017 9:40 am     Reply with quote

What a dumbarse , cover the lie with an even bigger BS pile.What a turd... Rolling Eyes
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Lee Baucum


From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
Post Posted 15 May 2017 10:09 am     Reply with quote

I just logged on to the Forum to ask if there had been any contact with the seller. Neutral Oh Well
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Herb Steiner


From:
Spicewood TX 78669
Post Posted 15 May 2017 10:21 am     Reply with quote

Bobby Bowman was my dearest friend in the world. He is rolling over in his grave to even be associated by mention with this travesty.
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Andy De Paule


From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Eugene, Oregon
Post Posted 15 May 2017 10:36 am     What goes around..... Reply with quote

What goes around, comes around.
I'd not want to be in that stream of nasty karma.
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