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Topic: Raise helper springs |
Paul Brainard
From:
Portland OR
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Posted 2 May 2017 4:09 am |
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I know they are not necessary and there are some reasons not to add them (another thing to get out of whack. . ) but I have two of the same brand of pedal steel, with the same pickup, pretty much set up identically - but the D-10 plays, sounds, and stays in tune much better than the S-10. Less "deflection", smoother & more positive action. It has a bunch of mods on it, including raise helper springs, so I thought I would try adding them to the S-10 and see what that does. The changer fingers have holes for them, but this builder never seems to install them (I have seem them added on a couple of his. . ) Here is what I have come up with, using a bracket from psgparts.com and the rest from local hardware stores. Any thoughts on the wisdom/effect of installing these?
The other mods may of course be part of the equation as well but this is the only one I can dive into - the D-10 has bumper bushings on the cross-shafts but the ones on the S-10 don't have a rounded spot in the middle for that. Can't find the right rotary springs for the ends of the cross-shafts. And haven't found nylon stops yet for the knee & pedal travel. . .
My thinking is that in addition to making the action a little lighter on the raises, the balanced tension will preload the changer so it will be smoother and also perhaps help transfer more string vibration - some of the same effect people cite in push-pulls.
Naturally lubrication and just basic proper adjustment are important as well, but I pay a fair amount of attention to all that and there is still something different about the mechanics of this other steel, especially how it pulls more in tune and how the tone just has a little more body to it (it is also a wood veneer finish, rather than mica. . .)
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 May 2017 4:42 am
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That looks like a bracket for the "adjustable lower return springs" and not raise helper springs.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Paul Brainard
From:
Portland OR
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Posted 2 May 2017 5:54 am
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| Yes, re-purposed to have adjustable raise helpers. . . I had to cut a little bit off each end to fit it in there. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 May 2017 7:21 am
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You don't need them on every string. My Franklin only has 2 on the E9th neck, and the springs are a lot lighter than the ones you show.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 May 2017 7:35 am
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Raise helper Springs need to be quite light, rather than the stiff return springs. Otherwise, it should be fine.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Paul Brainard
From:
Portland OR
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Posted 2 May 2017 9:26 am
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| These springs are actually quite a bit lighter than they probably appear, lighter than the ones on my other steel or that I've seen elsewhere. I'm sure I don't need them on all strings, at least not from a "helping" point of view although I do wonder if they would still have some beneficial pre-loading effect. It's an experiment - so far so good, although they just barely make it under the two bellcranks on the RKR cross-shaft, hopefully they won't catch. . . |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 2 May 2017 9:30 am Re: Raise helper springs
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| Paul Brainard wrote: |
| Any thoughts on the wisdom/effect of installing these? |
Your method would work but would be very difficult to adjust. I like the Zum way:
because you can change tension so easily and quickly.
As you can see, mine is adjusted so slack that it does nothing. That's probably because it interfered with lowering the pitch on this string (high G#). High G# is probably the only string where it could be useful. |
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Paul Brainard
From:
Portland OR
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Posted 2 May 2017 10:14 am
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Here they are installed. . . In fact the Zum style is exactly what is on my D-10 - the only thing is you have to get up in there with some needle-nose pliers to move it, and if you lose your grip & the spring flies loose then it can be a hassle to re-connect! These are long screws threaded into a small wood anchor that is threaded into the spring (crazy how hard it is to find them reverse-wound so you can do this. . .) So they can be fine-tuned with a small screwdriver.
Partly though my approach was dictated by what I could get ahold of - that bracket came with holes rather than slots, plus I don't know where to find those wire/bread-bag ties Bruce uses!
PS Jack & Earnest, I'm curious which strings your steels have raise helpers on. I'm finding I don't like them that much on my G#'s, gives it a bit of a "stair step" feel (although it might be a matter of balancing between the two), but they are nice on string 1 (F#) and 4 (E). It's a very subtle effect. . .
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 May 2017 2:29 pm
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I was just guessing when I said 2 originally.
Just looked at it and strings 1, 3, 7, 8 have helper springs.
I raise string 7 a half tone on a knee lever with 3 other strings so Mr Franklin must have decided it needed it. On my RKR I lower 2nd, raise 7th, lower 9th and lower 2nd on the C6th neck.
FWIW on my C6th neck there are helper springs on 1, 3, 6, 7, 8. These are stock. as built, I didn't add or change anything.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 2 May 2017 3:53 pm
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| How does the machine screw adjust the spring? Does it just "fit" ie you picked a screw and a spring that worked? or is there something else going on? |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 2 May 2017 5:30 pm
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| short threaded insert inside the spring |
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Paul Brainard
From:
Portland OR
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Posted 3 May 2017 7:29 am
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| Yes, there are little brass inserts that are actually made to screw into a hole in a piece of wood - they have a smaller threaded hole in them for a fine machine screw. Had to find reverse or left-hand wound springs & clip the loop off of one end for the inserts to be able to thread into them. Works pretty well! It's basically the same thing that Bill Rudolph does for the lower return springs on Williams guitars. If I could have found some lighter tapered springs I would have just done it like the lower returns & thread the screws straight into them. |
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