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Topic: Playing lead on a PSG verces playing lead on a reg guitar |
Jerry Recktenwald
From:
Louisville KY
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 2:35 pm |
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I play reg guitar and play lead and rythem for years.I have played C6 lap steel for a few years [lm learning on my own using what I know playing reg guitar. I have been learning to play PSG for the past 3 months and I am trying to understand how to play lead on the PSG I fell like that if I learn how to play a simple song [ slow] like Amazing Grace on the PSG it will help me understand the what the notes on the strings in different places . I want get it in my head how to play lead on the PSG , then using what I know of playing reg guitar things will begin to click together [ upstairs] Maybe some of you guitar players could give me some insight to help me to understand the difference in playing lead.
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If I couldn't play music I would go nut's.How do people go thru life and not have a hobby? life would be boring. |
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Andy Frantz
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 6:39 pm
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I come from a similar background and am pretty new to the PSG, too. So, I can't tell you how the story ends, but I can tell you a couple things I found so far:
- Play PSG parts less frequently. Even if you're used to playing mostly lead on a 6 string, you can always play along at other times with some chords. You can do that on PSG, but if you listen to songs for examples, that's not really how it's done. Right now, practicing at home, I'm playing wayyy to much.
- I play to the changes a lot more. Playing 6 string, a lot of times you can get away with playing a major or minor pentatonic scale in the songs primary key over every chord in the song. I find I'm thinking of the specific chord when playing licks on the PSG.
_________________
Steels: Hudson 8-string pedal steel, Gibson D8 console |
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Igor Fiksman
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 6:40 pm
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I am by no means an expert, and there are a million players on here who can offer wealth of experience that makes mine seem insignificant. But I am a former guitar player, here are my 2 cents. I have a lot of guitar picker friends who thought that their guitar experience will make PSG an easy task. Most of them quit quickly out of frustration and lack of desire to really spend time to learn the instrument. I stuck with it, and it payed off. I get a lot more gigs as a steeler than I would ever get on a six string. I find that the less I think as a guitar player, the easier it is to build my steel vocabulary. Funny thing is, as I get better on PSG, my guitar chops grow with it. But it doesn't seem to work the other way around.
Most guitar players tend to play lead around pentatonic scales, depending on the style of music. There are exceptions, without doubt, and there are as many approaches to 6 string as there are players, but I think most do rely on pentatonics and melody passages for on the fly leads.
Pedal steel guitar is fully suited for those same old pocket single note runs as regular guitar, but it truly begins to stand out when you use it's ability to weave together chord progressions. PSG is has unique ability to morph multiple chords into fluid passages the way no other instrument can. That's the sound that drew most of us to try to tame this beast of a device. In my opinion, most prolific steel solos take advantage of chord progression that makes up the song, tastefully using passing chords, implied chords, polyphonic harmonized scales and controlling sustain to offer flavor that no other instrument can match. Someone long ago has cleverly called PSG "a chord machine", why not use that for solos?
And, of course, there's no rule against licks, single note passages, banjo rolls, simply playing the melody and so on. Only limit is players imagination and size of ones musical vocabulary. I try to learn a cool solo I was impressed by every chance I get, always hoping to grow my bag of borrowed tricks and not repeat myself too much every night. Uphill battle, but a very rewarding one. Cheers!
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SHO-BUD Professional SD-10 Black, SHO-BUD Pro III Custom D-10 Red, Goodrich Matchbox 6A, Steeler's Choice seat, Quilter Steelaire Amps. |
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Joe Cook
From:
Lake Osoyoos, WA
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 10:49 pm
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| Nice job Igor. I've been a 6 string player for 40 some years, dabbling with PSG on and off during that period. I've devoted the last two years exclusively to pedal steel and I would say you're spot on with your assesment. |
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 10:56 pm That's it
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Igor Fiksman - well said!!!
Playing PSG has made me a better 6-string player. But PSG is a whole 'nuther thing than "normal" guitar.
Morph those chords - what an amazing instrument.
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 4:54 am
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I found it best to 'pretend I knew nothing about guitar' for several months until I was comfortably acclimated to the steel. After that, as Joe Wright likes to say often... "It's Just A Guitar!".
Just because it's the way record producers do it, there is NO actual rule that a Steel Guitar MUST wait for several bars, then play a two-bar fill, then wait several more bars. (That's what a Tympani player does.)
When you hear steel players play live, they will quite often be comping rhythms throughout the song, maybe with short few-bar pauses. Good players will have enough taste to fit in perfectly while doing this. One example that comes to mind is Lloyd Green on Charley Pride's 'In Person' live album. Another is Jay Dee Maness with the Desert Rose Band, where he says he was never told not to play the whole song, so he just did. When you hear stuff like that you realize that a Steel Guitar actually does a very similar role to a 6-string guitar, just with a different voice.
So, don't base everything off of studio recordings... where the producer has patched in the two bars where he wants a steel part and then sent the guy home. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 5:14 am
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Check out Robert Randolph and that whole style of playing. It can be done on the e9 tuning with no problems. Just learn your pentatonic patterns . There are easy pentatonic pattern on the C6 tuning also. The C6 tuning is basicly a pentatonic scale already.
What you are dealing with is learning different styles and forms of music and a different musical role within the music.
The main issue with guitars that play rock based music is that they are the focal point like singers. The function of pentatonic licks is to get attention. With standard country, singer songwriter, pop and even rock type gigs the pedalsteel mostly support and reinforcement.
Even when pedalsteel is the main instrumental voice in classic country the intro and solo state the basic melody.
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Bob |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 5:36 am
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Oh yeah, forgot to touch on the 'pentatonic' issue.
I think one of the advantages of steel guitar is that it is more natural to play on each chord, rather than sticking to a single scale. It is easier to resist the temptation than on a 6-string, where most amateurs will never leave that dreaded single-position 'Clapton' pentatonic form. 'Good' guitar players will play through the chord changes just as a steel player does (unless of course the single-scale sound is desired for effect in a particular song). |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 7:58 am
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| Igor Fiksman wrote: |
I am by no means an expert, and there are a million players on here who can offer wealth of experience that makes mine seem insignificant. But I am a former guitar player, here are my 2 cents. I have a lot of guitar picker friends who thought that their guitar experience will make PSG an easy task. Most of them quit quickly out of frustration and lack of desire to really spend time to learn the instrument. I stuck with it, and it payed off. I get a lot more gigs as a steeler than I would ever get on a six string. I find that the less I think as a guitar player, the easier it is to build my steel vocabulary. Funny thing is, as I get better on PSG, my guitar chops grow with it. But it doesn't seem to work the other way around.
Most guitar players tend to play lead around pentatonic scales, depending on the style of music. There are exceptions, without doubt, and there are as many approaches to 6 string as there are players, but I think most do rely on pentatonics and melody passages for on the fly leads.
Pedal steel guitar is fully suited for those same old pocket single note runs as regular guitar, but it truly begins to stand out when you use it's ability to weave together chord progressions. PSG is has unique ability to morph multiple chords into fluid passages the way no other instrument can. That's the sound that drew most of us to try to tame this beast of a device. In my opinion, most prolific steel solos take advantage of chord progression that makes up the song, tastefully using passing chords, implied chords, polyphonic harmonized scales and controlling sustain to offer flavor that no other instrument can match. Someone long ago has cleverly called PSG "a chord machine", why not use that for solos?
And, of course, there's no rule against licks, single note passages, banjo rolls, simply playing the melody and so on. Only limit is players imagination and size of ones musical vocabulary. I try to learn a cool solo I was impressed by every chance I get, always hoping to grow my bag of borrowed tricks and not repeat myself too much every night. Uphill battle, but a very rewarding one. Cheers! |
Spot on.
THEN AGAIN, you find folks like Russ Pahl blurring the lines between pedal steel and lead guitar parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdtvenGLWHw
I've also seen a concert video of Darius Rucker's band in which the pedal steel player is inhabiting more of a lead guitar role on some songs.
Robert Randolph leads a funk band on pedal steel.
IMO the instrument can be whatever you want to make it. It can fit in a lead guitar role if you pursue that aim hard enough. |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 9:15 am
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Jerry: After reading your post a couple of times, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "playing lead" on the PSG.
Do you mean playing 6 string parts on the PSG?
Or something else?
As for playing 6 string pentatonics on the PSG:
- Mickey Adams may have a whole course on this for purchase. He has a couple of videos on YT dealing with this.
- There may be other videos on YT.
- Joe Wright has courses on this as well.
I am in the same boat as you guys. I had played guitar for a couple of decades and knew my way around it pretty good.
When I bought my first PSG, my immediate goal was to take 6 string parts and transfer them to the PSG (like Allmans, etc.).
I thought that in about 6 months to a year I'd be zipping around on that thing like nobody's business.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
That is why when I mention that I am a musician to other people, and they ask what instruments I play, I always mention the PSG. But I make it very clear to them: I can do simple stuff to give the song a certain feel or flavor, but make no mistake: I happen to OWN a pedal steel, but I am NOT a pedal steel player. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 11:33 am
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Tell a story, no matter what instrument you play.
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Tony Leary
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 8 Apr 2017 4:13 pm
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This is a program I Use for scales on all tunings . The program is called Chords. Hope it works for you too. Just move it along for minor scale, as with 6 string scales.Can also switch from scale notes to scale number.
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 8:35 am
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If you have an iPhone or iPad, there's a free app named,"steelguitarsidekick" that has pedals and levers. Here, I have it set to A minor pentatonic on E9. You can see the three pedals above the fretboard and the 5 knee levers below.
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Apr 2017 10:01 am
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It's no Amazing Grace, but I kinda explained some simple things for Move It On Over (or any other simple blues in E) here: I apologize for the umms and ahhs.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LwnwkGyhEiE
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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