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Topic: Why did Emmons go from Push-Pull to All Pull? |
Jeffrey Snyder
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 10:48 am |
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Thank you for any insight that can be provided.
Jeff. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 12:33 pm
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Same reason he went from pull-release to push-pull. Progress.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 2:12 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Same reason he went from pull-release to push-pull. Progress. |
Having played both types of changers, I would not call it "progress." Push pulls are more expensive to build. They are indeed limited compared to the inferior all-pull system in regards to copedents but so is a violin with wooden pegs.
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I need an Emmons! |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 2:26 pm
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| Jeff - When you say "Emmons", are you referring to Buddy Emmons or the guitar company? |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 2:31 pm
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| There was market pressure to build an all pull guitar. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 3:14 pm
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Lee, I was assuming Jeffrey meant the person, but I guess the same applies. Tom, maybe I should have put progress in quotes. Tony, perhaps by progress I meant market pressure! 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 3:20 pm
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| Not comparing the two because I've heard both and they sounded awesome but look at other companies of the 60's and 70's. Many of them had unique mechanisms but as time went on more and more went to the All-Pull idea. Shobud did some different things over the years and ultimately ended up as all pull. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 3:49 pm
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Given that push pulls cannot do splits and all pulls can, I would not call the all pull system inferior.
Some folks don't care about splits. I find them indispensable. So much so that if a p-p 12 string came up for sale, I'd pass on it even if I could afford it.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 4:42 pm
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I agree. Split-tune options are now a part of the landscape and I for one wouldn't want to do without them.
Someone will doubtless chime in to say that it 'can be done on a p/p' but it's complicated. For me the difference in tone is there but not as marked as some will suggest. I suppose it depends on the era that influenced you - while I love listening to 'E' on, say, Miller's 'A Trip In The Country' LP I do find his tone a touch nasal.
My Emmons LeGrande is warmer than that and that suits me perfectly.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 4:55 pm
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The big selling point of the Emmons all-pull was tuneable splits.
Raises win on a push-pull, which is sort of a neat feature. If you lower your E's and add B+C, you get F# on the 4th (from the C pedal) and D# on the 8th (from the lever). That gives you a big honkin' B9th chord.
But people were lusting after the idea of tuneable splits and complex copedents (like the U-12) that were hard to do with a push-pull. The spin was that you could have the best of both worlds - Emmons tone and all-pull flexibility.
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 5:02 pm
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Roger,
I think Buddy's sound on that record is more product of the generally accepted Steel guitar tone and amplifiers of the era. He used the same guitar on Swinging From The 40's To The 80's, and the tone on that album is downright dark.
Last edited by Jack Stanton on 3 Apr 2017 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 5:07 pm
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Agreed, Jack. It's what was wanted at the time, presumably dictated by the producers of the day?
I feel like a heretic for saying it but steel guitar sounds sweeter to me when it's warmer (or, if you like, darker).
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 5:40 pm
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| Jack Stanton wrote: |
Roger,
I think I think Buddy's sound on that record is more product of the generally accepted Steel guitar tone and amplifiers of the era. He used the same guitar on Swinging From The 40's To The 80's, and the tone on that album is downright dark. |
Buddy surely used a borrowed amp(pretty sure he said it was a Twin Reverb)
on the Roger Miller album...he flew to town with Roger to record it(they both lived in LA)...
He was heard to say on more than one occasion that the tone he got on that album"would blister a beagle's ear at forty paces)...he didn't care for it at all. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 5:44 pm
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That's a relief!
I'm glad he didn't like it either.
Happy Birthday, Steve - I missed it.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 7:01 pm
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| Steve Hinson wrote: |
| He was heard to say on more than one occasion that the tone he got on that album "would blister a beagle's ear at forty paces"... |
Where do phrases like that come from?? Is it an Emmons-ism or a general Southern-ism? I'm sure I don't know anybody who would come up with such a colorful expression. But I did once meet a woman from Mississippi who told me that, if something or other (good) happened in her life, she'd be so ecstatic that she'd "bend down and kiss every tile in the linoleum"! Where do people get this stuff?? I must admit that the very notion of kissing the linoleum had, until that moment, never once crossed my mind... Did I use the wrong drugs in college or something?
Sorry for the diversion. We now return you to your regular programme...
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 7:39 pm
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| Quote: |
| He was heard to say on more than one occasion that the tone he got on that album "would blister a beagle's ear at forty paces".. |
Buddy wrote that here or in Ask Buddy. Being from the south. I've never heard that expression used before. Or what the lady said about kissing tile. But I ain't heard everything. I have a feeling that's an Emmons-ism.
b. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 7:51 pm
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
I feel like a heretic for saying it but steel guitar sounds sweeter to me when it's warmer (or, if you like, darker). |
I feel the same way.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 7:52 pm
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I'm inclined to agree with Bobby.
"would blister a beagle's ear at forty paces".
This is alliteration of the highest order with more than a dash of humour. Buddy excelled at expressing himself and not only through his instrument.
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 7:56 pm
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
| This is alliteration of the highest order with more than a dash of humour. Buddy excelled at expressing himself and not only through his instrument. |
You think he was a fan of Tintin?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 1:23 am
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| Steve Hinson wrote: |
| He was heard to say on more than one occasion that the tone he got on that album "would blister a beagle's ear at forty paces" |
| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Is it an Emmons-ism or a general Southern-ism? |
Buddy was from Indiana originally. But do not discount the testimony of hounds - what I like about single-coil pickups mine dislikes intensely, although he'll listen to humbuckers all day...
My grandmother would describe a person in a state of agitation as "like a sparrow on a hot breakfast".
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 6:14 am
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Regarding the tone of my Fessenden guitar, I can personally attest to the fact that a great income opportunity for paint and wallpaper contractors was lost upon completion of the removal of the GeorgeL E-66 pickup in my guitar, and subsequent installation of the Telonics 409.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 6:16 am
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_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Jeffrey Snyder
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 10:18 am Emmons - The company or Mr. Buddy Emmons?
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Thank you. I could never refer to Mr. Buddy Emmons as "Emmons". He was the "BIG E". I should have said "Why did the Emmons Guitar Company move from a Push-Pull to an All-Pull changer?
Thank you for the insight that this Forum provides. Without it, the history would be lost. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 12:54 pm
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| Buddy might have got it from hanging around guys like Grady Martin. Grady always said a Fender Telecaster can kill Johnson grass up to 100 feet away. Grady was a Gibson man understandably. |
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