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Topic: 75 emmons d-10 intonation issues |
Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 8:26 am |
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i have a 75 emmons d-10 that i need some help with. my e-9 neck is way out of wack (intonation wise) I find myself having to place my bar almost between the lines, in the upper octaves i'm nearly on the next scale tone.
The back neck is fine. This is my second emmons, never ran into this problem before. I aquired it recently and it was overhauled a couple of years ago. The man I bought it from said he hadn't played it since it's been restored.
Any thoughts |
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Jack Goodson
From:
new brockton,alabama (deceased)
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 9:57 am Emmons?
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| Kevin, sounds like the fretboard is installed incorrectly. Measure from the 12/th fret to the rollers and from the changer, each measurement should be 12 1/8th from the 12/th fret....thanks jack |
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Jody Cameron
From:
Angleton, TX,, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 11:01 am
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| Right , Jack. Also, some of these aftermarket fretboards are just plain off...meaning the fret lines themselves are not in the right places. I ran into this recently. Replaced boards with original NOS metal boards, and all is well. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 12:44 pm
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"Also, some of these aftermarket fretboards are just plain off"
Aftermarket Shobud boards were notorious!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 3:16 pm
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| I measured from the head rollers at 12". The guys at Steel Guitar east(who restored it) said that was the measurement but the intonation is still way off. I don't know if I can trust these printed fretboards |
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Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 3:18 pm
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| Jody, any suggestions on where to find NOS metal fretboards? |
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Jody Cameron
From:
Angleton, TX,, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 3:40 pm
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| Kevin, the measurement should be 12 1/8" from middle of roller nut to 12th fret. Emmons is 24 1/4" scale, so 1/2 that measurement should be 12 1/8. I do know where you can get some real fretboards. They ain't cheap, but they are right. Email me at emmonsd10@yahoo.com. I'll get back to you asap. I'm on the road, but will get some time in a day or so. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 4:48 pm
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Kevin, when you say the guys at Steel Guitar East said 12" was the measurement, I cannot believe they suggested that Emmons had a 24" scale on the push pulls.
They know the scale is 24 1/4" and would have told you so.
Did you provide the fretboard yourself? Did they tell you the scale of the fretboard was 24" or 12" to the 12th fret? That makes more sense -- the guys at Steel Guitar East saying your fretboard is wrong.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 5:39 pm
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You do know that an Emmons fretboard slides up under the keyhead. That allows for some wiggle room. It's possible that it just wasn't gotten right when it was installed.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Harlow Dobro |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2017 10:32 pm
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Or, that he had Bobbe Seymour fretboards, that are floating around.
But Steel Guitar East, or whatever they are called, would know good from bad.
Easy to tell.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2017 6:23 am
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They told me 12" from the center of the roller head to the fret marker of the 12th fret. If that's the case, it was spot on But still sounds off. 12& 1/8th sounds more logical on a 241/4 board
The restoration itself seems great otherwise. It's actually a 1975 d10. |
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Jody Cameron
From:
Angleton, TX,, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2017 7:49 am
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| Kecin, I sent tou an email that may help. JC |
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Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2017 12:16 pm
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| Thanks Jody. I received it and reached out to both guys. |
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Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2017 12:18 pm
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Chris(lucker),
They told me 12 to the twelfth fret |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 1 Apr 2017 12:39 pm
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Going back to Jack Goodson's post, and taking some liberties with it.........
The distance from the 12th fret to the string break over the roller nut..........
should be the same as........
the distance from the 12th fret to the string break over the bridge roller.
It sounds like both of these measurements should be 12 1/8 inches, for a total of 24 1/4 inches.
So, measure and report to SGE (and us curious folks here):
1) 12th fret to nut roller = ____________
2) 12th fret to bridge roller = ____________
This may give some clue as to whether or not it is the correct fretboard, if it is installed properly, or something else.
It is possible to measure from one or the other to the 12th fret and get the right measurement, AND STILL use the wrong scale fretboard and/or have it installed wrong. A lot of ways to get the right measurement the wrong way.
In any event, the answer about the scale length from SGE makes some red flags start to go up. It doesn't appear from the forum members here that SGE has the right information as to the scale length.
I personally have enough trouble with intonation on my own. I certainly don't need the guitar to add any more error. ;>)) |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 1 Apr 2017 2:22 pm
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| You say the rear neck is OK? You should be able to take measurements, comparisons etc. from there and determine the problem. |
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Kevin Johnson
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 4:29 am
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| You say the rear neck is OK? You should be able to take measurements, comparisons etc. from there and determine the problem. |
That makes sense Jerry. I'll check it out |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 5:56 am Re: 75 emmons d-10 intonation issues
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IF:
| Kevin Johnson wrote: |
| I find myself having to place my bar almost between the lines, in the upper octaves i'm nearly on the next scale tone. |
| ajm wrote: |
| It is possible to measure from one or the other to the 12th fret and get the right measurement, AND STILL use the wrong scale fretboard and/or have it installed wrong. |
| Clyde Mattocks wrote: |
| You do know that an Emmons fretboard slides up under the keyhead. That allows for some wiggle room. |
If the 12th fret is at the centerline, moving the fretboard under the keyhead might correct somewhere in the upper octave but be flat everywhere below that.
Everything suggests that the fretboard must be too short. I'll be interested to read measurements on the rear neck compared to the front. |
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Billy Knowles
From:
Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 6:20 am 24 1/4
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I think everyone knows Emmons is 24 1/4, I told Kevin to measure from the end of the key head, the center of the roller nuts is 1/8" to the end of the key head, to the 12th fret, which is the Emmons factory method of placing a fret board, this factory method places the center of the 12th fret at 12 1/8" from the center of the roller nuts,
_________________
Billy Knowles
STEEL GUITAR EAST
Emmons authorized dealer and approved service technician
my web site: http://www.steelguitareast.com |
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Billy Knowles
From:
Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 6:27 am Kevin
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Kevin, I told you from the end of the key head to the center of the 12th fret, I did not tell you from the center of the roller nuts, sorry for the misunderstanding. I am sure of this as I have never tried to place the fret board using the roller nuts, I use the Emmons factory method of using a steel 12" scale from the end of the key head to the center of the 12th fret should be 12", as from the center of the roller nuts to the end of the key head is 1/8". This method places the center of the 12th fret at 12 /1/8" from the roller nuts.
Billy
_________________
Billy Knowles
STEEL GUITAR EAST
Emmons authorized dealer and approved service technician
my web site: http://www.steelguitareast.com
Last edited by Billy Knowles on 2 Apr 2017 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Billy Knowles
From:
Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 6:30 am fret board
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don't know who put the fret board on but if it is 12" from the center of the roller nuts to the center of the 12th fret, it is not in the correct position.
_________________
Billy Knowles
STEEL GUITAR EAST
Emmons authorized dealer and approved service technician
my web site: http://www.steelguitareast.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 5:11 am
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Earth calling out to all of us Emmons people floating around in outer space...
as Billy said...above ...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Tommy White
From:
Nashville
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 8:46 am
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Thank you Tony!
Billy Knowles is an expert and I trust in his experience completely😊.
Not a better person you will ever meet than Billy. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 9:12 am
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What Tommy said.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2017 9:17 am
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Yes, Billy Knowles says anything, take it to the bank.
One thing you may try, take a dull butter knife and put between strings and fretboard on 12th fret perfectly on the fret and straight up and down. I do it on first string. Pick string on both sides of knife and see if they are the same. Just do it with no amp. If they aren't perfectly in tune with each other, something off some where.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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