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Author Topic:  Struggling with effects
Larry Behm


From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
Post  Posted 22 Mar 2017 9:29 am    
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Loren and I are taking every comment above and working through them all to come up with a system and a sound that best works for him. The forum is a great play to hang.
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'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Flamma Reverb, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblocks, Telonics 15” speakers.

Phone: 971-219-8533
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David Rupert


From:
Mesa, Arizona (via Mahopac, NY & Missouri).
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 2:14 am     Chain order
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I'm playing through a Roland Cube 80X Amp, so I don't have the option for having my effects in an "effects/loop bypass." I'm not even sure if I'm saying it correctly or not? Even when I owned a Peavey...I never used that feature.

Anyway, my big question is:

Where should my effects pedals be? BEFORE the volume pedal...or AFTER the volume pedal? I'm using a Hilton, if that makes any difference? A steel player friend of mine told me years ago, that I should have my effects 1st...then to my Volume Pedal...then out to the Amp. He stated, this way my effects will always have the same amount of signal.

This week I purchased a TC Electronicâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, & a TC Electronicâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive pedal. Should my Delay be BEFORE my Overdrive pedal, or the vice versa?


At the moment, I'm going through my volume pedal 1st...then my Delay, then my Overdrive....then to my AMP.

I'm hearing the signal breakup, at higher volumes...having it this way. I'm also going through my Tascam DR-10 PCM Recorder...so maybe that's why I'm getting some breaking up, at higher volumes??

If I go through my Effects 1st...it does not breakup. Also, I'm playing through headphones via the headphone output jack on my amp. I live in an apartment, so I must use headphones at home. I'm not sure if this had any bearing on this or not? They're inexpensive Yamaha headphones. I need to replace them soon anyway, as the plastic earpiece is starting to get cracks. They've had A LOT of use.

Last, but definitely not least. The 1st day I had it...even before I had a chance to hear my new Delay pedal....it fell around 1.5 feet, to a hardwood floor, front first!!! Idiot move, I know. I was in a hurry, & it fell when I was changing the cables. It sounds great, & I didn't harm the knobs or switches. I did message TC Electronic...& they don't think I harmed it. I'm not getting any noises, buzzing, etc.

I hope someone can help me out, & put my mind at ease!!??

I'm done yappin!

Thanks very much!
_________________
David "DJ" Rupert

"Music. Without it, life itself...would be impossible."

ZumSteel - Encoreâ„¢ S-10 / 3p x 5k (Two-Tone; Red & Black Top).
Rolandâ„¢ Cube 80x Amp, Hilton Volume Pedal, TC Electronicsâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, TC Electronicsâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive, Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner, D2F Covers. Evans JE-300 Amp. (in the not too distant future).

Most Importantly: the musicians hands...& soul.

http://www.bandmix.com/pedal-steel-75/
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 4:22 am    
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In my opinion you gotta really dig into the strings to get a superior sound on any string instrument. Be assertive; don't pussyfoot. It's no coincidence that pedal steelers who come from an acoustic instrument background (banjo and Dobro, especially) often sound better right out of the box than folks who start fresh.

A strong right hand is far more important than everything else downstream, including pickup, cables, volume pedal, amp, speaker, etc. And as far as effects are concerned, for a beginner, the best place for them is probably in the closet.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 4:58 am    
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David, most of the time, your overdrive will be better BEFORE the volume pedal. If it's after, the amount of fuzz changes with the output volume, but if it's before, your right hand controls the amount of fuzz.
Most effects like the (relatively) even input of being before the pedal, but reverb and delay sound weird if shutting off the pedal squashes the tail.
Some pedals don't like the hotter signal of a steel pickup, and do better when the pedal attenuates most of it.
All of these are general guidelines, not roolz.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
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David Rupert


From:
Mesa, Arizona (via Mahopac, NY & Missouri).
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 6:38 am    
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Jack Hanson wrote:
In my opinion you gotta really dig into the strings to get a superior sound on any string instrument. Be assertive; don't pussyfoot. It's no coincidence that pedal steelers who come from an acoustic instrument background (banjo and Dobro, especially) often sound better right out of the box than folks who start fresh.

A strong right hand is far more important than everything else downstream, including pickup, cables, volume pedal, amp, speaker, etc. And as far as effects are concerned, for a beginner, the best place for them is probably in the closet.
Thanks, but I'm definitely not a beginner. 43 years. Yikes!! I hear what you're saying though.
_________________
David "DJ" Rupert

"Music. Without it, life itself...would be impossible."

ZumSteel - Encoreâ„¢ S-10 / 3p x 5k (Two-Tone; Red & Black Top).
Rolandâ„¢ Cube 80x Amp, Hilton Volume Pedal, TC Electronicsâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, TC Electronicsâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive, Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner, D2F Covers. Evans JE-300 Amp. (in the not too distant future).

Most Importantly: the musicians hands...& soul.

http://www.bandmix.com/pedal-steel-75/
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David Rupert


From:
Mesa, Arizona (via Mahopac, NY & Missouri).
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 6:59 am    
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Lane Gray wrote:
David, most of the time, your overdrive will be better BEFORE the volume pedal. If it's after, the amount of fuzz changes with the output volume, but if it's before, your right hand controls the amount of fuzz.
Most effects like the (relatively) even input of being before the pedal, but reverb and delay sound weird if shutting off the pedal squashes the tail.
Some pedals don't like the hotter signal of a steel pickup, and do better when the pedal attenuates most of it.
All of these are general guidelines, not roolz.
Thanks Lane! The pedals are fine...it's something with the Tascam recorder. I'm hearing, what it's going to record (monitor). Steel pickups are HOT signals for sure!! I can only put my recording levels around 3-4 MAX. I was also hearing any annoying buzz...so I took the effects out of the chain...& it was still there. It cleared up...around 30 minutes after that. Maybe someone had a dimmer switch on, or something?

You're exactly right, & I forgot about that...as I've been using the one built into my Amp. Definitely have the effects BEFORE the Volume Pedal!! Especially the Overdrive. When I had it AFTER the Volume Pedal...there was basically NO distortion, until I floored my Volume Pedal. Even then, not so mean. But BEFORE...& it kicks a$$!! Mean!! Nice! I wasn't going through the Tascam when I did these last tests. It DOES breakup SLIGHTLY, in the TAPE ECHO mode...but not the other modes. Maybe that's how the old Tape Echo units were, back in the day? It's actually a cool mode, on this Delay pedal.

Thanks again!!
_________________
David "DJ" Rupert

"Music. Without it, life itself...would be impossible."

ZumSteel - Encoreâ„¢ S-10 / 3p x 5k (Two-Tone; Red & Black Top).
Rolandâ„¢ Cube 80x Amp, Hilton Volume Pedal, TC Electronicsâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, TC Electronicsâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive, Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner, D2F Covers. Evans JE-300 Amp. (in the not too distant future).

Most Importantly: the musicians hands...& soul.

http://www.bandmix.com/pedal-steel-75/
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 7:14 am    
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David Rupert wrote:
Thanks, but I'm definitely not a beginner. 43 years. Yikes!! I hear what you're saying though.

So sorry if I insinuated you were. I'm no neophyte myself, but you'd never know it by my playing. From the guys who taught me back in the '70s, some of whom are well known to this Forum, I should sound like a million bucks. Instead, I sound more like two cents.
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David Rupert


From:
Mesa, Arizona (via Mahopac, NY & Missouri).
Post  Posted 18 Jun 2017 3:03 pm     No problem
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Jack Hanson wrote:
David Rupert wrote:
Thanks, but I'm definitely not a beginner. 43 years. Yikes!! I hear what you're saying though.

So sorry if I insinuated you were. I'm no neophyte myself, but you'd never know it by my playing. From the guys who taught me back in the '70s, some of whom are well known to this Forum, I should sound like a million bucks. Instead, I sound more like two cents.
No problem!
_________________
David "DJ" Rupert

"Music. Without it, life itself...would be impossible."

ZumSteel - Encoreâ„¢ S-10 / 3p x 5k (Two-Tone; Red & Black Top).
Rolandâ„¢ Cube 80x Amp, Hilton Volume Pedal, TC Electronicsâ„¢ Flashbackâ„¢ Delay, TC Electronicsâ„¢ MojoMojoâ„¢ Overdrive, Peterson StroboPlus HD Tuner, D2F Covers. Evans JE-300 Amp. (in the not too distant future).

Most Importantly: the musicians hands...& soul.

http://www.bandmix.com/pedal-steel-75/
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

John McClung


From:
Olympia WA, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jun 2017 1:01 am    
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For Ian Rae, Lane Gray, and others:

Normally you wouldn't use a tuner to check intonation. Mainly there's no time to do that.

However, there's always an exception to rules! Here's that exception:

On the soundtrack sessions for the 2013 "Man of Steel" movie, a group of 8 of us steel players were simultaneously playing "parts" for composer Hans Zimmer, to be sampled and used to create notes from his score, which hadn't been written yet; you can barely call them parts. In reality we were simply playing single notes and various slides up and down, with varying amounts of vibrato as commanded by Hans and the conductor.

Mind you, this is top pro's in L.A., including JayDee Maness, Marty Rifkin and 6 others less famous but seasoned pro players.

What we learned very quickly is that it's fairly easy to start in tune, but devilshly hard to land on the target slide note in perfect tune, especially 8 of us at once. So to a man, we all had a tuner either inline or in a side chain, to check our start and target notes!

My Hilton volume pedal was a newer model where he built it with the 2nd output jack always on and to use with a tuner. Much easier to check tuning that way, you can turn your volume off completely, yet still send a full signal to your tuner. I still use a BOSS TU-15, it's accurate, reliable, and I'm fond of tuner needles.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Smile
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net


Last edited by John McClung on 19 Jun 2017 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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John McClung


From:
Olympia WA, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jun 2017 1:04 am    
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For Ian Rae and David Nugent:

Normally you wouldn't use a tuner to check intonation. Mainly there's no time to do that.

However, there's always an exception to rules! Here's that exception:

On the soundtrack sessions for the 2013 "Man of Steel" movie, a group of 8 of us steel players were simultaneously playing "parts" for composer Hans Zimmer, to be sampled and used to create notes from his score, which hadn't been written yet; you can barely call them parts. In reality we were simply playing single notes and various slides up and down, with varying amounts of vibrato as commanded by Hans and the conductor.

Mind you, this is top pro's in L.A., including JayDee Maness, Marty Rifkin and 6 others less famous but seasoned pro players.

What we learned very quickly is that it's fairly easy to start in tune, but devilshly hard to land on the target slide note in perfect tune, especially 8 of us at once. So to a man, we all had a tuner either inline or in a side chain, to check our start and target notes!

My Hilton volume pedal was a newer model where he built it with the 2nd output jack always on and to use with a tuner. Much easier to check tuning that way, you can turn your volume off completely, yet still send a full signal to your tuner. I still use a BOSS TU-15, it's accurate, reliable, and I'm fond of tuner needles.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Smile
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Greg Lambert

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jun 2017 6:09 pm    
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I had this problem for years. Went through a lot of amps and effects. Finally figured out my problem. It was my playing technique. Right and LEft hand , pedal throws and progressions.

Now I get compliments from everyone about my tone and playing which is really nothing fancy.
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