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Topic: Jerk |
Rick Aiello
From: Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2017 2:28 pm
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What does a high school chemistry teacher do on a snow day ... when he's sick as a dog ... grade tests, plan labs, etc ...???...
Nope, he tries to describe why Jeff Au Hoy's vibrato is so pleasing ...
Let's choose three positions on a string in an Au Hoy vibrato "cycle" ... The note being played (n) ... The furtherst point his bar reaches toward the bridge (b) ... And the furtherest point his bar reaches toward the nut (a).
No, this is not another discussion of rate and extent ... although it is interesting that studys show a clear decrease of the mean vibrato rate (−1.8 +/- 0.3 Hz) accompanied with an increase of vibrato extent (56.4 ± 0.3 cent) over the last 100 years among sopranos ... Keep reading ..
For simplicity ... Initially ... lets just consider the straight line distance traveled by Jeff's bar :
A <---> B ... Call this distance "x" ...
The change in distance x as time changes .. is velocity (v) ... v = dx/dt
The change in velocity as time changes .. is acceleration (a) ... a = dv/dt
The change in acceleration as time changes ... is jerk (j) ... j = da/dt
The secret of Jeff's vibrato lies in his "jerk" ... No jokes please
If acceleration changes are too abrupt ... well, its just not pleasing ... like an elevator that starts and stops to fast ... Riding in a car with a driver's-ed kid, etc ...
Yes, jerk is a "physics thing"... the third derivative of position.
The key to any smooth ride is to reduce jerk ... The key to Jeff's vibrato ... he reduces jerk !
His bar doesn't travel in a straight line between A <---> B ... It travels in an elliptical fashion (think more oval than circle).
Of course the net result of his bar movement is a straight line between A and B ... The elliptical nature of his bar movement ... makes his change in acceleration/time less drastic ... less jerk.
For anyone's vibrato on a string ... at point A, velocity is zero and the bar accelerates to point " n" where it reaches its maximum velocity ... From point "n" to point B, the bar exhibits a negative acceleration (commonly called deceleration) until it comes to a complete stop ... Velocity is zero ... Then ... well, yada, yada. yada
By adopting an elliptical motion ... The velocity at A and B is still zero ... And at "n", its velocity is still at its maximum ...
But the changes in acceleration as "n" goes to B ... and as "n" goes to A ... are much more subtle ... Ala smooth
Jeff Kearns and I always chat about vibrato and on his last visit he brought this up ... Got me thinking of it, and this is the result (blame him) ...
I may never achieve "Au Hoy-ish" levels of pleasing smoothness ... But after 30 years of playing ... This old dog is changing his spots ... Oops, mixed cliché alert |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From: Philly, PA
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Posted 14 Mar 2017 3:27 pm
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LMAO.......that was great too....an excellent study.
I agree that vibrato/sliding is best achieved via elliptical movement or bar/slide manipulation that implies something other than a straight line.
If you note that top-shelf slide guitarists do a similar thing when they slide from one position to another....they tend to slant the bar in the direction they want to go a smidge before they actually change position. Bonnie Raitt does this. _________________ Four Pettingills and a Clinesmith Aluminum. Fender Blues Junior. Quilter Mini-101. |
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Loren Tilley
From: Maui, Hawaii
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Posted 14 Mar 2017 4:15 pm
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I was lucky enough to see Jeff play at the Halekulani last weekend, and I can authoritatively state that the magic in his vibrato was at least partially caused by the mai tais served at the House Without a Key. _________________ Rickenbacher B-6 |
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David M Brown
From: California, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2017 4:23 pm
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Loren Tilley wrote: |
I was lucky enough to see Jeff play at the Halekulani last weekend, and I can authoritatively state that the magic in his vibrato was at least partially caused by the mai tais served at the House Without a Key. |
I've felt that magic before too.
I'd like to feel it again.
Seriously, interesting analysis of the vibrato of a master player.
Last edited by David M Brown on 15 Mar 2017 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Andy Henriksen
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 7:16 am
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It's entirely possible that I'm remembering incorrectly, but I thought on one of Troy B's podcasts with Alan Akaka, Alan basically corrected Troy's technique in the opposite direction of what's being endorsed here - Troy was playing vibrato with a sort of circular or elliptical motion, and Alan tried to get him to be more linear.
Ultimately, it just might be a matter of multiple ways to skin a cat, and everybody has their own style/technique.
Regardless, I really appreciated the analysis here! And, I learned about 'jerk' as a physics concept. Cool! |
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Mike Neer
From: NJ
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 7:32 am
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There is nothing like a really good vibrato. Jeff definitely has it.
That said, for my personal style, sometimes no vibrato is as important as vibrato. When I began to re-evaluate my own sound, I turned to my experience as a vocalist and what I learned from listening to numerous singers carefully. Sinatra was really the one who taught me the importance of control with vibrato and the strategic placement of it. Also, listening to many sax players made it clear that there is no "one size fits all."
Sometimes I think I can use a little more in spots, but it is difficult when you are being spontaneous to get it right.
Hope you're feeling better! _________________ http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Sebastian Müller
From: Berlin / Germany
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 8:57 am
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Ha Rick, I always love your approach to these topics : ) I think what ever works, one thing for sure, if you read some of Jeffs old posts he always cared a lot about other players vibrato, so no wonder that his vibrato is excellent, but yet has his own touch !
Get better soon, Rick ! _________________ https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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David Knutson
From: Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 10:23 am
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A brilliant piece of scientific observation, Rick (although it did sort of remind me of a recent fever dream). This brings nerdy into a whole new realm of artistic excellence! Nicely done. And ya, get well. _________________ David K |
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Joe Breeden
From: Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 10:39 am
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Well said Rick. Now I know why I am not good at it. Hope you get well soon Joe |
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Andy Volk
From: Boston, MA
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 10:46 am
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At last! The secret of vibrato!
Quote: |
The note being played (n) ... The furtherst point his bar reaches toward the bridge (b) ... And the furtherest point his bar reaches toward the nut (a). |
_________________ Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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HowardR
From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 10:46 am Re: Jerk
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Rick Aiello wrote: |
For simplicity ... |
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Rick Aiello
From: Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 12:56 pm
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David Knutson wrote: |
although it did sort of remind me of a recent fever dream |
I've had my best ideas from fever dreams ...
Anyway, figured I best stop at the third derivative of position ... the fourth (snap) dj/dt, the fifth (crackle) ds/dt and the sixth (pop) dc/dt .. start getting a tad strange ... those are the real terms ... dont know if Kellogg's got it from physics or visa versa
Anyway ... I present "Exhibit A"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fv4XrNr9AnI
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 6:25 pm
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^^^
That's a beautiful performance. It never gets old. Jeff channels the greats, but has a touch all his own. I guess part of that being because every vibrato is a little different--like a voice. Another thing he does so well that gets overlooked is the way he slides into the target notes--a fast approach that comes up just short before almost squeezing it to its true pitch. This is a big key to the Hawaiian sound to me...as important as a person's vibrato.
Anyway, I love your analyses even though I don't understand the science behind it. I imagine if you taught physics, your students would be learning about Jeff, Sol, Iona, etc. as you used Hawaiian music for demonstrations.
My pet theory is that a person's vibrato tends to be the same rate as their vocal vibrato. A comparison of both Jeff's playing and singing vibrato would be interesting. |
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Wally Pfeifer
From: Illinois, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2017 8:58 pm Rick
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It's nice hearing from Rick.
Just don't go to dinner at Al's Steak House in Joliet Il. Rick will have the biggest steak in the place and stick you with the bill..
Just kidding. : |
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Chris Templeton
From: The Green Mountain State
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Steve Marinak
From: Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 16 Mar 2017 12:25 pm
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I'd love to hear from Jeff, and any others on their Vibrato technique.
Do you consciously plant your left ring finger so it's immobile? Therefore doing a "Spock Vulcan" scissor?
Do you shake your whole arm?
Where's you get your concept of how to wiggle?
Thanks. _________________ Steve Marinak |
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Rick Aiello
From: Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2017 1:55 pm
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I remember Jeff, Jeff Kearns and me sitting in an IHOP at 2:30 in the morning, eating pancakes and talking vibrato in Ft. Collins on a Saturday nite
That was a fun time ...
He plants that ring finger and lifts his pinky ... like he's applying vibrato on a Cello ... with that ring finger ... the middle, index, thumb and bar ... just along for the ride
That's what I saw .. and I really was paying "close" attention ... what a treat, hope I get the chance to hang out again |
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Andy Costigan
From: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
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Posted 16 Mar 2017 2:33 pm
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i had the pleasure of spending some time with Jeff in 2013 when i was in Oahu for a wedding. i asked him if he'd had trouble developing his vibrato. he told me "no" as he'd played cello at school! |
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Steve Marinak
From: Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 18 Mar 2017 9:33 am
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Thinking about what you guys have said, planting the ring finger and letting the middle/index/thumb along for the ride.
I tried that out. It floats more. I had been applying much more pressure to the index and other two fingers. When pressing hard like that it's not as flowing for the vibrato.
Am I headed in the right direction? _________________ Steve Marinak |
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Doug Beaumier
From: Northampton, MA
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Rick Aiello
From: Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2017 4:31 pm
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Steve ... I can't handle the ring finger being the "vibrato" finger ... but have had a modicum of success using my pinky for that purpose .. especially on forward slants ...
I've done it so many ways in the last 30 years ... it's kinda ridiculous .. but to me and what I hear in my head ... the vibrato is the main thing ( I guess folks that have been on the forum since 2000 .. are tired of me discussing it) ..
I haven't played much since Ft. Collins 2015 ... spent the rest of that year working on Lee Jefferies' new NIB Trap pickups ... what an ordeal ... .. then getting roped into teaching high school again, since Luigi started kindergarten, didn't need to be a stay at home dad anymore and an IB chemistry position opened up at Ellie and Emmie's high school
Then after Kearns visit in Feb, I started thinking again .. I showed my IB students Jeff Au Hoy on YouTube one day at the end of a two day lab .. and started to play again ... just as a diversion from day to day school shit.
Since it had been 1.5 yrs ... I lost any muscle memory I had acquired ... started with a clean canvas as they say ... and decided to try and emulate my favorite - Jeff AH ...sorry JB
Jeff showed me and Kearns at IHOP that nite he had hyper-flexibility (commonly termed Double jointed) ... as did JB ...
Its like his hand has five distinct entities... moving independently... while mine move more like "lobster boy" ...
But I think I've made some good progress ... adopting the "pinky finger" as the fixed vibratoing point ... and not even thinking about my middle, index, thumb and bar ... just letting it hang loose and do their own thing ... removed from any conscious control from me ...
Turns out they travel in an elliptical "orbit" around the note being played... producing the sound that has eluded me for so many years ... leading to me writing the post ... reduce your third derivative of position ... and let the good tone roll |
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Bob Stone
From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2017 4:43 am
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Rick,
Great analysis. I haven't seen a discussion of jerk since my mechanical engineering studies at UF back in the '60's. Sadly, our automobile engines have infinite jerk every time those pistons change directions.
To me, a big part of vibrato is having the sound in your head. I played violin for several years and the challenge there is to achieve the same vibrato on each finger of your left hand.
As Mike Neer pointed out, the amount and speed of vibrato is a matter of preference. I don't care for much vibrato in medium and up-tempo jazz/swing. My saxophonist brother-in-law almost never uses vibrato and has a beautiful tone.
Jeff Au Hoy's vibrato is indeed beautiful and always tasteful. A young master. |
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