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Topic: Blues Instruction? |
Judson Adair
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 9:32 am |
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I really want to play so more bluesy and rock stuff on my steel but I can't seem to find any instruction for it.
I would really like to learn some stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGp9zzj3egA
I have watched this video like 100 times trying to rip off some licks but I am just terrible at learning anything with out a tab.
I play 8 string C6 if that matters.
Anyone know of any books or anything I could buy? |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 11:25 am
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| tune to open E and the notes are all there. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 12:29 pm
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It's not the tuning, it's the tone and style that makes this music work.
These licks could be done on ANY tuning, even on regular slide guitar in open E/D, A/G or even standard tuning.
If I recall Muddy Waters played slide in open tuning, as did many of the acoustic and electric bluesmen.
So make sure you have a good mellow overdrive tone, and just play the notes in whatever tuning.
There are many, many books and DVD's on blues lessons. I'd suggest just using your ear and "steel" a bunch of the licks and tunes you like.
BTW, I'd use open E, E7 or something similar. But you could play this in C6 or any other tuning. |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 12:46 pm
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Blues in C6 on DVD or TAB? Good luck with that.
I don't have access to YouTube in work but Mike Neer has a YouTube video of blues in C6 that just smokes...alas, no TAB.
David is right that it can be played in any tuning but that isn't a help to you....or me.
Ideally, give me a simple blues tune in standard tuning, Open E or G and then in C6....so one can learn how to transpose from one tuning to the other.
Oh wait...here's something that should help....
https://www.lessonswithtroy.com/C6-Basics-Vol-9-Playing-The-Blues-in-C6-Tuning.html
_________________
Four Pettingills and a Clinesmith Aluminum. Fender Blues Junior. Quilter Mini-101. |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 1:23 pm
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Well, first of all, there's a whole lot of us here who would love to play like Mike. He seems to bring his own magic into any style he chooses. For me, being able to improvise blues began with getting comfortable using the "Blues Scale" up and down the fretboard. Here's an exercise in C6 that I recently wrote out for a student. This is all in the key of C, but once you've got the pattern you can move it around to different keys. It begins in a lower octave, then a higher octave, then ties the two together and dips into a third octave. There are other patterns you can find, but this one works for me. Have fun.
This is for 6 string (low to high) C -E -G -A -C -E
_________________
David K |
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Judson Adair
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 2:14 pm
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| I can't use my ear to do anything. I have terrible ear. I literally have a music degree and almost didn't graduate because I am so terrible about picking things up by ear. And that was over a decade ago when I was much better than I am now. I do really well with sheet music and tabs. I have been trying to take blues riffs I like and writing them into C6 but it is time consuming and I already don't have that much time to actually play. |
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Rob Anderlik
From:
Chicago, IL
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 6:21 pm
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Judson,
I know you're reluctant to learn by ear but I would encourage you to make that your highest priority if you want to tackle a genre which leans so heavily on improvisational skills. I don't claim to be an authority on the topic but my own personal experience is that most of the blues players I know learned to play by ear first and any theoretical undeunderstanding came later.
One good way to get started would be to pick a tune built around a riff that repeats. For example learn the riff to One Way Out by the Allman Brothers. I recommend using a software program like Transcribe. It's tedious work to be sure, but the riff to One Way Out is not that tricky. With a little bit of effort almost anyone can learn it. Anyway, once your learned the riff then learn the chord progression and the minor pentatonic and blues scale and you'll be on your way.
As stated earlier it's not just a matter of knowing the notes, how you control your phrasing is just as important. In that regard I highly recommend taking a look at the podcast series by Brian Kane at jazzpath.com. I think there are 6 podcast lessons there which are free and go a long, long way to demystify the basics of improvising
One of the hardest things to grasp when you're getting started with improvising is doing a lot with just a few notes vs doing very little with a lot of notes. Leaving space between phrases like Mike Neer is doing in the video is part of it. Harnessing the power of repetition is another. One simple exercise to get started is to pick just for notes from a minor pentatonic scale and make it a goal to improvise using just those four notes for at least two minutes at a time. This does not require any theoretical knowledge whatsoever. Anyone can do it. If you give it a try you will quickly see how important it is to leave space between phrases and a harness the power of repetition. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2017 8:56 pm
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| Rob Anderlik wrote: |
One good way to get started would be to pick a tune built around a riff that repeats. For example learn the riff to One Way Out by the Allman Brothers.
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Good advice about ear training and improvisation in blues!
It's funny that you mention "One Way Out".
I used to play in a rock band back in the 70's that played the song - and I used to play it on a lap steel.
I found one of the rare pictures of that era...I may be playing the Allman Brothers song while the picture was taken circa 1975. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 12:00 am
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If you play regular guitar, you are probably familiar with the pentatonic or "blues scale" box pattern.
The idea is that any licks made up of the notes in this pattern (in the diagram it is shown for the key of A and comprises the notes A C D E and G) will work over a 12 bar blues (and many other styles).
Well on C6 scale all the notes 3 frets up from the key you are in (so for the key of A, the 12th fret) fall into this scale (you have 4 of the 5, anyway). If you use that as your starting point and add the 5th note of the pentatonic and a few extra notes (a lot of the other notes 1 and 2 frets below will work too) you can come up with some cool blues stuff. You'll soon hear which notes work well sliding into others instead of picking them all separately and which ones are a good startnig point for a phrase.. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 12:15 am
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Use your ears
Pentatonic scale mostly. 5 notes. Choose a 6th tuning but as said previously you can play this on ANY tuning.
The blues isn't technically hard but its emotive.
Emotive = 5 notes played with the following
Slow
Speed
Slow
bend = is a slide up or down before or after the exact note so it gives a whiny out of tune blues sound.
Hang on a note or two
Flurry
then end.
5 notes - use your ears and feeling (Its suppose to sound like someone is talking/crying/happy or sad
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Judson Adair
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 11:00 am
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I don't think you guys understand. I have been playing guitar for 20 years, I have a degree in classical guitar, I took 4 classes in college on ear training and have bought and done literally every course on ear training I could find. I am not reluctant to learn to play by ear. I have tried and tried and tried and tried. What I have found is I can spend 10 hours trying to learn a simple song by ear or I can spend 10 minutes with a tab or sheet music. If it weren't for the fact that I can read sheet music well I wouldn't have gotten my degree.
I appreciate that everyone is just trying to be helpful and that is the ideal way to learn it but understand I get maybe an hour of free time a day between work and wife and kid these days so learning by ear for me is just not an option. Which is why I am looking for tab or sheet music.
Trust me if I could learn by ear I would be much happier. It is why I am an accountant who plays for fun instead of being a musician by profession. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 11:44 am
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Hmmm...
I get you. Life is demanding for us all.
I can recommend then if blues is where you want to go check out a website called TrueFire.
Sign up
Access the videos
Work through the exercises and songs
They have a blues section that you will love. I just started their jazz stuff and it's awesome. It fits in your schedule and it's like having a teacher for a fraction of the cost. Plus you can squeeze it in whenever you can.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Judson Adair
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 12:20 pm
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I will check into it.
A real teacher would be great. I always do best with someone I can talk to and work stuff through with. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 12:34 pm
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| Judson Adair wrote: |
I will check into it.
A real teacher would be great. I always do best with someone I can talk to and work stuff through with. |
Since you have a formal background, find somebody that can play good blues AND teach you well, by ear.
I think this will benefit you and be what you really want. |
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Judson Adair
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 12:44 pm
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| That is what I did on the regular guitar and it worked pretty well. I am not fantastic. I don't know of anyone teaching slide in OKC though. I will admit I haven't looked in a while though. Might be something to check back into. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 1:08 pm
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I have some info on playing blues in C6th in my Exploring C6th book but I'd agree with the other folks that you'll probably make the most progress with a good teacher who can help you with ear training. I can totally understand how the whole thing can feel overwhelming given your past experiences but don't give up! If you persevere you will be successful! 
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Former Member
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 1:32 pm
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| Nice wild Buddy-ish blues there Stephan! |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 1:53 pm
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| Jeff Mead wrote: |
Well on C6 scale all the notes 3 frets up from the key you are in (so for the key of A, the 12th fret) fall into this scale (you have 4 of the 5, anyway). If you use that as your starting point and add the 5th note of the pentatonic and a few extra notes (a lot of the other notes 1 and 2 frets below will work too) you can come up with some cool blues stuff. You'll soon hear which notes work well sliding into others instead of picking them all separately and which ones are a good startnig point for a phrase.. |
Follow the advice in Jeff's post. That's what threw the door wide open for me playing blues in a 6th tuning. I mean like, five minutes ago.  I had always moved to the non-6th neck for playing blues and rock when all the notes were right there all along. (Yeah, I need a teacher too). Thanks Jeff! |
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James Phillips
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 4:19 pm
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Blues is so much about feel..or expression.
If you don't want to switch out of the C6 tuning ,then at least tune that 6th to a 7th.
Or buy a $99 lapsteel and tune that to open E or D.
I think you would find that much more gratifying then trying to make the C6th sound blusey . Of course there are guys who can do that,, but you need to work within your own parameters.
As far as ear training goes, you already have a knowledge of theory ,so go on Spotifiy and play along to the "Blues Roots" playlist. Do that for awhile , and I bet you might surprise yourself .
Best of luck to you.
_________________
Visit my Studio: LimeStoneLabs at.. http://Facebook.com/LSlabs
"Let the Bridges We Burn Light the Way" |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 8:31 pm
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C6 is great for blues and more versatile than E or D tuning. If you really want to open it up, lower your E string in C6 to D, which is what I did in the video in the first post (thanks for posting, by the way--that was just a rough few choruses I improvised).
I love blues, all blues, from Bessie Smith to the jazz variations of the blues form and all stuff in between. It is vocal music, mostly, and you have to learn to sing through your instrument. I would love to do instructional material on the blues, but I don't think I can. It's far too personal.
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Rob Anderlik
From:
Chicago, IL
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 8:41 pm
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Judson,
If you're interested I can share tabs for my lap slide arrangement of Ry Cooder's Feelin' Bad Blues with you. Here's a link to a YouTube video that I shot as an endorsement deal for Gold Tone a few years back. I am playing it on a Weissenborn guitar in D tuning in the video but it works just as well in E tuning on lap steel and sounds great with a little tremolo through a tube amp. It's really a great blues tune!
https://youtu.be/TbaX05g6D9o |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 11:04 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
C6 is great for blues and more versatile than E or D tuning. If you really want to open it up, lower your E string in C6 to D, which is what I did in the video in the first post (thanks for posting, by the way--that was just a rough few choruses I improvised).
I love blues, all blues, from Bessie Smith to the jazz variations of the blues form and all stuff in between. It is vocal music, mostly, and you have to learn to sing through your instrument. I would love to do instructional material on the blues, but I don't think I can. It's far too personal. |
Trust me Mike is right. I also have a 6th tuning in my E13 as it lends itself for speedy pentatonic runs.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2017 11:09 pm
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| Ron Ellison wrote: |
| Nice wild Buddy-ish blues there Stephan! |
Thanks Ron. Appreciate the kind comments. I literally used one scale and just added a few extra notes here and there. It was what they liked on the recording. Somehow you do pentatonic scales and people come up to you at gigs and say how awesome it was.
You use tons of more advanced stuff and few get it. Anyway I say this to remind you that depending on the situation you need to be flexible as a player. Once you start Blues you will progress to jazz blues then jazz as the more you learn the more thirsty your quest of knowledge becomes. At least I did.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Judson Adair
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2017 8:35 am
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Mike,
So I have watched that video like 100 times trying to figure out what you are doing but I assumed you where in standard C6 but I just looked at the description and it even says you dropped that E. I am not sure how I never noticed that. I am going to try dropping the E to a D when I get home. I bet that will help me a ton.
Thanks! |
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