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Topic: OK - so how does one start? |
James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 11:56 am |
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I'm a spry 47 years old.
I've had classic(al) guitar training but haven't played actively in decades
So, while I can bang out a couple of pieces on the fretted counterpart, if I'm honest the skill is gone - but I, at least, still retain a limited conceptual base for how music works (and I used to work in a music shop through school, so I understand the basic mechanics/electronics of instruments..though I know almost nothing about steels)
The, for lack of a better term, liquid sound of the steel seems sort of freeing to me (I listen to hindustani music as well, so not being locked into 12-tone systems is kind of neat)
I would think that pedal steel would be, well just too much, at least at this point.
I don't expect to be more hat a hobbyist, but yeah - I'd like to play around and enjoy music again
so any thoughts on how a complete beginner should...begin? |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 12:23 pm
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| If you already have a steel strung guitar (acoustic or electric) you can buy a nut raiser from eBay to raise the action for playing slide. Along with an appropriate set of strings (depending on what tuning you want to try) lets you try out the concept before buying a lap steel (which is obviously the other option). |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 12:41 pm
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hey thanks!
sadly, I'm all gut (well, nylon, tried the PVFD strings and didn't like them)
too bad too b/c classical guitars are flat radius
It does bring up the noob question. I mean i can see how having a purpose built instrument could allow you to optimize
But what are the specific bennies of a dedicated lap steel design over a standard guitar with modified action?
Maybe this means I get to buy a new TOY!!!!
hey, my wife went surfing in Mexico without me, so maybe it's warranted
Last edited by James Winger on 13 Feb 2017 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 12:58 pm
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| James Winger wrote: |
hey thanks!
sadly, I'm all gut (well, nylon, tried the PVFD strings and didn't like them)
too bad too b/c classical guitars are flat radius
It does bring up the noob question. I mean i can see how having a purpose built instrument could allow you to optimize
But what are the specific bennies of a dedicated lap steel design over a standard guitar with modified action? |
You could modify a cheap classical - I don't suggest ruining a fine classical, of course.
The first several decades of steel playing were on modified guitars! Well, some were made with a raised nut and such, but that was the Hawaiian steel guitar for quite a while. Even the Weissenborn and resonators were a later development.
Heck, find a POS steel string, maybe one with a warped neck, and string is up to learn to play steel. CHEAP! |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 1:01 pm
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well, if metal if preferable - I could go get an inexpensive steel strung guitar (Probably not wise to modify my nylon due to the non-cheap variety )
I could work a new saddle too if that's preferable - I think I still have some bone blanks around here somewhere
what about solid body electrics? if it's got a strat style bridge I could jack the saddles and set for a flat radius with a hex wrench
I suppose the solid migt have the advantage of non-wife annoyance while I learn
but it's not fair b/c she's plays drums |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 1:11 pm
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Of course, if you want a new toy there are lots of vintage lap steels out there that can still be picked up fairly cheap, even though prices have been going up the last few years.
You can still pick up a vintage 40s/50s Gibson 6 string student model for $300 which are great guitars and will retain their value if you decide to sell it. I saw one on one of the Facebook groups recently for $200.
I'd just say don't buy one of the budget steels made in the far East that you see all over Ebay. They really aren't very good,care super short scale and have pretty much zero resale value. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 2:15 pm
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hmm, a chota ghoraj but no bada ghoraj on the one on the right
I wonder why?
My guess is the slide could change the string height too much and interfere with the jawari. That situation never even occurred to me |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 2:24 pm
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The only problem getting a vintage instrument is just that....it's vintage and there are no guarantees as to the electronics on board.
As you are a "noob", that would be a serious joy-kill right off the bat if it doesn't work well.
Forum member, Robert Allen, makes well-respected lap steels that are pretty good price-wise and plus if you buy a new steel from him, there's a guarantee of it working right out of the box.
I can't remember the price of Mr. Allen's steels but IIRC, they are affordable.
You can get some new steels from manufacturers:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PwrSlide
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EFCLEBNH
_________________
Four Pettingills and a Clinesmith Aluminum. Fender Blues Junior. Quilter Mini-101. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 2:26 pm
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| Using perfume-free laundry detergent helps a lot with that |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 2:36 pm
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| Stephen Abruzzo wrote: |
The only problem getting a vintage instrument is just that....it's vintage and there are no guarantees as to the electronics on board.
As you are a "noob", that would be a serious joy-kill right off the bat if it doesn't work well.
Forum member, Robert Allen, makes well-respected lap steels that are pretty good price-wise and plus if you buy a new steel from him, there's a guarantee of it working right out of the box.
I can't remember the price of Mr. Allen's steels but IIRC, they are affordable.
You can get some new steels from manufacturers:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PwrSlide
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EFCLEBNH |
you do make a good point.
I really don't feel like digging into the control cavity out-of-the-box - esp if I had to source a vintage pickup
but worse is, I don't really know anything about steel MECHANICAL set-up
or even how to determine if it's set up decently
Does Robert Allen have a website? |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 3:05 pm
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
Yeah man, don't you just hate it when something interferes with your jawari?  |
It ruins a good buzz. Bummer. |
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James Winger
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 3:55 pm
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| David M Brown wrote: |
| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Yeah man, don't you just hate it when something interferes with your jawari? |
It ruins a good buzz. Bummer. |
You, sir, win the internetz |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Bob Gleason
From:
Hawaii, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 9:45 am
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| Kind of hate to post this, since I make steels and a few other people here do too, but anything to help a player get steeling! A little web searching and you'll find some incredible cheap steels. Something like $99.00 delivered, including a gig bag, stand legs, and they work just fine. Most of them have a 21"is scale, which is a bit short, but hey some people like that. It's a cheap start and they play right out of the box. |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 10:38 am
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| Bob Gleason wrote: |
| Kind of hate to post this, since I make steels and a few other people here do too, but anything to help a player get steeling! A little web searching and you'll find some incredible cheap steels. Something like $99.00 delivered, including a gig bag, stand legs, and they work just fine. Most of them have a 21"is scale, which is a bit short, but hey some people like that. It's a cheap start and they play right out of the box. |
I agree, there's a time and place for inexpensive instruments. If someone has limited funds, perhaps just wants to try it without making a big commitment. But if someone has the money and it's something they are going to stay with for the long term, it makes sense to buy a good quality instrument they can keep for years. Buying a cheap instrument and then upgrading later can end up costing more than buying a good instrument in the beginning. Occasionally a good instrument shows up in someone's attic or at an estate sale and the buyer ends up with both low price and high quality but most of the time people get what they pay for. |
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James Phillips
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 7:39 pm
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| Bob Gleason wrote: |
| Kind of hate to post this, since I make steels and a few other people here do too, but anything to help a player get steeling! A little web searching and you'll find some incredible cheap steels. Something like $99.00 delivered, including a gig bag, stand legs, and they work just fine. Most of them have a 21"is scale, which is a bit short, but hey some people like that. It's a cheap start and they play right out of the box. |
Agreed..
Buy a Rogue six string lap steel for $99 ,with legs and case. I did and I loved it.I have bought 3 pro quality steels since then but I still have the Rogue.
If you get bit by the "Steel Bug" ,you will never regret it!
_________________
Visit my Studio: LimeStoneLabs at.. http://Facebook.com/LSlabs
"Let the Bridges We Burn Light the Way" |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 10:46 pm
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| James Phillips wrote: |
| Bob Gleason wrote: |
Something like $99.00 delivered, including a gig bag, stand legs, and they work just fine. Most of them have a 21"is scale, which is a bit short,
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Agreed..
Buy a Rogue six string lap steel for $99 ,with legs and case. I did and I loved it.
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Me too!
But, even I'm eventually going to tweak theRogue and try to stretch out the scale length to 22-ish", and replace the bridge with a simple one and make it string-through, it works fine.
Heck, I'd buy the legs just to use them. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 6:34 am Rouge Set up
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We researched the Rouge type imports and figured them out set up wise.
Out of the Box , 21 scale , remove and discard the strings as they are normal guitar sets and low quality to boot.
Replace with tuning appropriate American Made Strings.
Set all of the Bridge Saddle thingies all the way back and in a straight across row. We were able to leave the springs on and squeezed them tightly. With a Tape measure set the Saddles at 21" from the Business side for the nut. Set them to top center as best possible. Measure from nut to fret 12 and bridge top center to fret 12 , both should be equal distance. This should get one of these as close as it can get out of the box.
For David and others we sell vinyl peel n stick fret boards in 21 and 22 scales - the 21 replaces the funky vacuform plastic unit and the 22 can help folks like David that want to lengthen the scale. We have 22.5's but you would need to re set the nut too. These FB's are a nice low cost way to get started.
Please let me underscore my aversion to the flood of Asian low quality Lap Steels of all Brands and the stores that market them to the USA.
Forum Members are well aware of several Contemporary Builders , all of whom make very nice Steel Guitars at a loss and barely a labor fee far less than any sweatshop worker makes. GeorgeBoards Pleads with everyone to do the right thing and purchase New Steel Guitars from these and other Made in USA Builders. These Dedicated Builders are the very Future of the Steel Guitar Made in the USA.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 7:36 am Re: Rouge Set up
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| George Piburn wrote: |
his should get one of these as close as it can get out of the box.
For David and others we sell vinyl peel n stick fret boards in 21 and 22 scales - the 21 replaces the funky vacuform plastic unit and the 22 can help folks like David that want to lengthen the scale. We have 22.5's but you would need to re set the nut too. These FB's are a nice low cost way to get started.
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I'm planning on resetting the nut too, so I should get one of your longer scale length fretboards.
Thanks for the advice. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 7:45 am Proccedure
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The Topic has already Drifted enough.
It is not appropriate to highjack this thread.
You should either start another thread or contact me directly through the forum,s system.
Happy to discuss this further with advise. 
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 15 Feb 2017 12:08 pm
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On the contrary George, I don't think we have drifted far enough.
How about gathering up an armful of scrap things from your Man Cave and building your own Instrument. Throw away your Music Stand, don't take any lessons since you already know how, and why Music goes up and down, don't even think of looking at Tabs far less a Music Score and set you musical mind free.
Here is my Matchless 500.
It sounds like this. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsPQxc59ric
Or you could follow the suggestions above, buy reams of Tabs, learn every lick Kayton Roberts ever played for Hank Snow like millions of others, and be happy. |
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