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Topic: D130F in a bass cab? |
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 18 Jan 2017 10:05 pm |
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Have found for sale a bass cab, 21x21x14 with the 15 inch d130f in it.
It is a closed back but pretty easy to cut some plywood for semi open back.
Not excited about the weight of it, probably over 65 pounds. Scary and totally unneccessay for the gigs I play. ..lol... but geez... I want to try the fabled d130f sometime in my life!
For much less money I could be into an Eminence Travis Troy neo into a unused 1x12 open back guitar cab.
I really like my Peavey Blue Marvel N112 speaker for double duty, but I do struggle with that upper mid and treble interactions on steel. But that speaker is deadly for six string.
Looking for double duty steel and six string using a vintage 40W fender tube amp.
Given today's options in great 12 inch steel speakers, is tbe d130f dream really worth pursuing and would this cab be a good fit? |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 19 Jan 2017 3:26 am
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Keep in mind that the JBL D130 is +3db more sensitive than the Eminence TT-12; this is equivalent to doubling the amplifier power.
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Emmons & Peavey |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 19 Jan 2017 5:45 am
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I agree with Tom. The JBL will be way louder. I am into JBL speakers. They have a very particular sound. The D130 lives in a different place in the mid range and upper highs than other speakers. Might be worth trying out. Make sure you get it for around what you could resell it for if it turns out it doesn't suit you.
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Bob |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 19 Jan 2017 6:12 am
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Hi Tim
Gotta wonder why a D130 was in a bass cab , but hey!
D140 would have been the speaker for a bass amp. Make sure you give it a good tryout so you know the speaker hasn't been damaged . |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 19 Jan 2017 7:39 am
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The configuration is a bit odd, the seller bought it that way with a second identical cab with the D140. I suspect it was a bit of a project to mix speakers like guitarists do.
Thanks for the cautionary advice. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2017 9:53 pm
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One thing to be cautious of is a popular misconception abut JBL D130 and 120 series speakers.
The D130F could handle 60 watts RMS when NEW. An older one will have lost some power handling. I send more JBL D130 and 120 series speakers out for recones than any other type.
JBL's design engineer at the time has spent years trying to educate the music industry about the bizarre type of power rating JBL decided to use in their marketing pieces - rating them at 100 watts.
A *pair* of them usually isn't a huge problem - at least if played clean - unless the amp is something like a 130 watt MusicMan, 200-watt Marshall head or >100 watt steel amp.
In a bass cab the original speaker was undoubtedly a D140 - a different animal.
It might be OK as an extension speaker with some amps, but not as the only speaker in anything over 50 watts.
Also, if you have never used one, many players think the top end is quite harsh and "icepicky". You can alleviate some of that by placing a pad on the grill that blocks the aluminum cone from projecting straight ahead. Weber VST sells a kit for speaker grills just for that purpose.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 19 Jan 2017 10:28 pm
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Hi Jim, thanks for the remarks.
I am thinking about pairing it with an early SF 40W BandMaster Reverb.
The seller has a second identical cab with the D140... both second hand for him. The cabs are pristine but I would have to believe this is a replacement, and at the asking price should have the original cone.
As for power rating, I read just tonight that JBLs were rated in closed back operation and that open back use reduced their power rating to half. I am interested in your take on this statement.
How can I tell the difference between an original cone and a recone? Are there number codes on back of cone that will differ? |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 20 Jan 2017 7:05 am
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
The D130F could handle 60 watts RMS when NEW. An older one will have lost some power handling.
It might be OK as an extension speaker with some amps, but not as the only speaker in anything over 50 watts.
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How does an older speaker "lose" power handling?
60 watts RMS into a JBL D-130 will produce 121 db SPL at 1 meter. That's JET-ENGINE LOUD!! I wonder if the players who were blowing them up also lost some hearing........
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Emmons & Peavey |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 20 Jan 2017 7:06 am
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Tom,
You may be overthinking it. An original cone could be over 50 years old and might not sound as good as a decent recone.
Around Texas those old JBL speakers seem to be the speaker of choice. I see them on stage someplace every where I go. I have NEVER seen anybody use any sort of blocking device on the bell. People use JBLs because they love how they sound.
Some people don't use them because they like something better or don't feel like lifting them anymore.
_________________
Bob |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 20 Jan 2017 7:50 am
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65#? That's a lot for just a speaker cab. 21x21x14 shouldn't be that heavy. Must be really dense material.
I doubt the JBL weighs more than 25-30#. A pine or birch ply cabinet that size would be a lot lighter than that. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 20 Jan 2017 9:16 am
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| I think the power loss is associated with gradual demagnetization of the alnico magnet |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Jan 2017 11:55 am
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| Steven Paris wrote: |
How does an older speaker "lose" power handling?
60 watts RMS into a JBL D-130 will produce 121 db SPL at 1 meter. That's JET-ENGINE LOUD!! I wonder if the players who were blowing them up also lost some hearing........ |
Power handling has little to do with the magnet strength. As old paper-coned speakers age, the adhesives used on their voice coils dry out and sometimes crack or flake. The suspension rings, originally doped to aid in their flexibility, become fragile and brittle due to age (oxidation) and years of use. "Pushing" a speaker, with either excess undampened cone excursion, or with distorted sounds, could ruin even a brand new speaker. Thus, older speakers may be even more likely to fail when pushed under such conditions, or maybe even just to their original (pure tone) design maximums.
For those of you who were not around 50 or more years ago, bands (and music, in general) weren't nearly as loud, so caution is the order of the day when dealing with older speakers. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 12:15 am
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D130's are easy to blow. And then reconing a JBL is not as easy as other speakers. The reconer has to really know JBL's and how to recone them properly.
Once you've blown it, then it ends up in the reconed category where resale is not as strong as the original coned varieties.
I had a D130F in my 60's Vibroverb. The aluminum cap cracked. The Vibroverb is only a 30+ watt amp and open back at that.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 7:54 am
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Its a risk. The d130f is apparently only a 50W Speaker in an open back config vs 100W closed back. I discovered my head is actually 45W so there is no margin in an open back config.
I will probably build a ported cab to mstch the head to keep the rating high. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 8:00 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
Its a risk. The d130f is apparently only a 50W Speaker in an open back config vs 100W closed back. I discovered my head is actually 45W so there is no margin in an open back config.
I will probably build a ported cab to mstch the head to keep the rating high. |
One would need the Thiele-Small parameters for the JBL to optimize the cabinet for said speaker. And yes using this speaker is a risk.
One could do a search for Harvey Gerst. He was responsible for writing the spec sheets on the D130, 130F at JBL.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Steve Sycamore
From:
Sweden
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 12:12 pm
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I'm not sure how the 3 dB fable came about. Certainly not from a knowledgeable engineer. In a normal speaker arrangement the volume drops off at 6dB per meter. That means that it requires double the acoustic power or a 6 dB increase to double the apparent loudness volume.
However, if you happen to implement a planar wave speaker system the volume drops off at 3 dB per meter. That means that it only requires a 3 dB power increase to double the apparent sound volume.
But.... It requires about a 2 meter (6 foot long) speaker column for each frequency range (woofer, mid and tweeter) to create a facsimile of a planar wave generator.
Realistically it is only the mega-PA systems for huge arenas that can muster the number of drivers to implement such a system. |
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Steve Sycamore
From:
Sweden
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 12:38 pm
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
The D130F could handle 60 watts RMS when NEW. An older one will have lost some power handling. I send more JBL D130 and 120 series speakers out for recones than any other type. |
The F designation means that they were specifically built and sold to Fender. The speaker designer at the time increased the diameter of the voice coil chamber slightly to reduce the possibility of contact or chafing. That would severely decrease the life of the speaker. But I believe that enhancement was introduced in many other models after about 1970.
According to the speaker designer, the main reason for the speakers to fail was that the installers would over tighten the mounting bolts causing the speaker frame to distort which further caused the chafing described above. You can find all of this information on the internet if you do a thorough search. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 1:54 pm
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| Does anyone know the tightening spec off hand? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 1:58 pm
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Oil drain plug/oil filter is what I've always been told. Finger tight plus a quarter turn.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 5:43 pm
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Thanks Lane... although you may want to go a lot tighter on the oil drain plug  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 6:12 pm
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You don't know how strong my finger-tight fingers are....
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 23 Jan 2017 6:17 pm
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Very true! Don't hurt yourself!  |
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Frank Markow
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 8:37 pm
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I have a JBL D130F, was thinking about putting it in a Nashville 400. Any thoughts / concerns about this? To test it out, I connected the amp directly to the speaker, which is currently in a closed back Fender style cab, but I am not sure how it would sound in the NV400 cabinet. Also, I would not want to blow this speaker as I'm sure the amp can put out more watts than it should handle. But it sounded great at around 1 or 2, think for gig volume could go up a notch or two without any problems...
Another idea I had, was to build a head cabinet for the NV400, then set it on top of the Fender cab...
_________________
Warning: I have a Telecaster, and I ain't afraid to use it! |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 8:59 pm
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I'd like to mention that the Eminence 15" JBL clone is the closest thing I've
heard to a D-130...rated at 300 watts and light as a feather...
I haven't used the JBL since I got the Eminence and don't miss it...
Just throwing it out there...
Steve
Brand X |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 2 Apr 2017 9:34 pm
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If you're curious about JBL's I say go for it. I loved em the first time I tried one in an amp. They blow, or more commonly develop voice coil rub every so often but I just get more. Eventually I'll find someone to recone them.
Just last night I fired up my old '61 Standel hybrid with the closed back "bass reflex" cab that has a D130. I find a closed back cab pretty inconvenient most of the time because it's so directional but it's tough to compete with the sound of that thing. |
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