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Topic: Carter SD-10 6th string problem persists. |
Bradshaw Pack
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 12 Jan 2017 6:42 pm |
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Many of you have responded with your suggestions on how to fix the sixth string G#, however, nothing I have tried fixes the problem. To be more precise, here is the situation. When the G# is perfectly in tune, as soon as I tune the B pedal's half-step shift up to "A", then when the pedal is released the G# is wildly sharp. I have looked at and adjusted everything from the ball end of the rod all the way to the cross-shaft and then onto the changer. I am completely at a loss.
On the bright side, I have really been helped by the steel guitar community with a lot of suggestions and it was only last week that I signed up. Thank you to everyone.
Bradshaw
_________________
ZumSteel U-12; William's U-12; Evans Amp (15" speaker); Goodrich volume. |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2017 7:21 pm
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Hi Bradshaw, I'm no expert, and have no experience with a Carter...but it sounds to me, that pedal stops to soon? As a result, the 3rd string reaches the desired note, but the 6th doesn't. So to help it get there, you're having to tune the 6 at the nylon nut, and finding it sharp when the pedal is released...is that correct?
The issue sounds like "overturning", and it is...but the problem is the lack of travel, in my experience with my own guitar and a few others that I've had the pleasure of tinkering on.
I've found that once a larger diameter string, in this case, the 6th...is able to reach the note, the smaller string becomes way sharp, but that's easy to fix...just detune 3 at the nylon.
There must be a stop adjustment screw or something, that isn't agreeing with that 6string? Find it, back it off until you've achieved that A, lock it down and you should be
a bit happier!? I hope someone with more experience with a Carter will/can chime in and give you some details that I'm ignorant of...but if not, you're welcome to contact me, and I'll return and give you my phone # and walk you through it the best I can? Good luck
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“TONESNOB†|
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jan 2017 8:50 pm
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I agree. Give it a scoche more travel.
Although I really think moving the 6th string barbell farther away from the cross-shaft might also do it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 12 Jan 2017 11:21 pm
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| Carter's suffer from worn dumbbells , the wear away on one spot , if they turn in the bellcrank the string will be sharp if there is not enough slack on the pull... Maybe someone can explain it better.i had a carter and it drove me crazy trying to find why it kept going out of tune. I had some new one made and it got rid of the problem... |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2017 5:54 am
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Bradshaw.. Here's what I would do.. Lay on your back UNDER the guitar...Watch how the finger on the changer gets pulled out whenever you hit the pedal. Repeat a few times.. Now, listen to the pitch of the note.. I usually just reach up and hit the string while observing/listening..
Now you are familiar with the situation visually, and with your ear..
Do the same thing except this time, push the changer finger back with you finger after you release the pedal each time.. it could be staying forward a bit.
Thats what it sounds like is happening from what I have read.
If there is any noticeable movement or pitch change with finger pressure, either the changer finger is hanging up in the changer[doubtful], OR there is something hanging in the "pull chain" between the pedal, and its pivot points, all the way to the changer.. I would also check the nut roller on that string, make sure its rolling free and easy,.. My bet would be friction caused by wear at the dogbone/changer rod connection in the cross shaft/bellcrank where it hooks over.. The stainless rods will dig into the brass and "catch".. Seen it already...
If you want, you can also back the nylon nut all the way out, till it is NOT touching at all, and then push the changer finger in with a small screwdriver raising that string pitch close to an A note where it would normally be..If it returns correctly to pitch, it is NOT in the changer, but somewhere between the rod TO the changer all the way down to the floor pedal.. Its either that or in the nut.... If all that checks out, go to an unwound 6th, and see what happens... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bradshaw Pack
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Jan 2017 10:43 pm Thanks Bob
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A heartfelt thanks to Bob Carlucci who spent a part of his Saturday helping me out over the phone. Bob very methodically got to the root of the problem and now the guitar is up and running. Up here in Canada there are not a lot of people who work on these guitars, in fact, the next repair shop is half a continent away.
Thanks to everyone on the forum for their suggestions.
Thank you again Bob,
Bradshaw
_________________
ZumSteel U-12; William's U-12; Evans Amp (15" speaker); Goodrich volume. |
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memphislim
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 20 Jan 2017 9:54 am
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| Bradshaw, please describe your solution so others may benefit. |
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Randy Schneider
From:
SW New Mexico, USA
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 3:53 am My GFI
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| Thanks Lane. I backed the nut off the 6th string more than 10 turns. Now, the rod is not pulling the string at all. When I step on the B pedal the G# goes flat.WTF? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 7:38 am Re: My GFI
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Hi Michael, you must keep track of what thread you are responding on, or else it all becomes too confusing.
| Michael J Pfeifer wrote: |
| Thanks Lane. I backed the nut off the 6th string more than 10 turns. Now, the rod is not pulling the string at all. |
Wrong procedure.
Without pushing any pedals/levers, turn the nut back in again until it almost, but not quite, touches the changer scissor. Never turn the nut further in than that, as otherwise you'll end up overtuning it again and have the scissor hanging on the rod.
If you then cannot get 6th string up to "A" (or higher) by pushing the B-pedal, you will have to move the rod further from the axle on the bell-crank and start over again.
| Michael J Pfeifer wrote: |
| When I step on the B pedal the G# goes flat.WTF? |
That is most likely the "body-drop" effect on the 6th string you hear, as 3d string increases in tension when you push the B-pedal with no action on 6th string.
This detuning problem will disappear when you get the pedal action tuned right for the 6th string. |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 12:04 pm
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Georg,
Sorry about the confusion. I lost the thread for a previous message.Okay, so I turn the nut back in till it is close to the changer. Then what? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 12:14 pm
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With the nut close to, but not (ever) touching the scissor with no pedals pushed, push the B-pedal and see if you reach the "A" note for the 6th string (in sync with the 3d string).
* If the "A" note is sharp, loosen the nut.
* If the "A" note is flat, move the hook-up on the bellcrank for that pull further from the bellcrank axle, and try again. |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 12:22 pm
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| I don't understand what you mean when you say"move the hook up on the bell crank." |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 1:39 pm
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| Thanks for helping me out. Yes, I recognize the parts. I don't know what went wrong. Billy Cooper and Bob at GFI did some work on the guitar. Everything seemed to working fine. I have another GFI and they appear to be set up the same way. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 2:26 pm
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| Changed string type / gauge lately? |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 3:56 pm
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| No. Before I do anything I haven't done before, I'll try pushing the rod in and gently tap it away from the changer. I guess the idea is to get it as close as possible without actually touching. That's where it is now,but I'll try again. I think you were saying move the brass ferrule to a different hole for more travel.Right? The older steel has 3 holes in the bell crank. The one I play most has 4. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 4:10 pm
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| Michael J Pfeifer wrote: |
| I think you were saying move the brass ferrule to a different hole for more travel.Right? |
Exactly. |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 5:30 pm
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I'll tinker.
Thanks Georg |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Jan 2017 10:01 pm
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| You're welcome. Keep us posted. |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 28 Jan 2017 3:19 am
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John Roche....I had the same problem with an "A" pedal (Emmons tuning)....it would pull fine, but on releasing it, it was out of tune. My pal put another dumbell in....sorted  ....I now regularly lube all the dumbells...more so on the ABC pedals as it's a Uni I play like your good self, so the 4567 pedals get less lube Lol
Micky "scars" Byrne U.K. |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 28 Jan 2017 3:56 am
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| This is useful information. Thanks, Mickey. |
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Michael J Pfeifer
From:
New York NY 10036
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Posted 5 Feb 2017 6:29 am
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Gentlemen,
I moved the brass ferrule to the next hole in the bell crank. It seems to have solved the problem. I'll know for sure when I go out to jam next month.
Thanks again,
Michael
Last edited by Michael J Pfeifer on 6 Feb 2017 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 5 Feb 2017 9:43 am
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