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Author Topic:  Are 12 string Universal Pedal Steels popular these days?
John De Maille


From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
Post  Posted 14 Jan 2017 6:16 pm    
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I started on an S-10, forty years ago and switched to a U-12, thirteen years ago. It's a wonderful steel to play! Everything that's on an S-10 is on a U-12. The only difference is the lack of a 9th string D on the S-10. That can be gotten with a knee lever with the U-12.
I play mostly traditional country, so E-9th is used a lot, but, when I play Western swing, all the low notes are readily available with lowering my E strings, giviing me a B-6th tuning.
There are other ways of playing a 6th type sound on a 10 string E9th, but, the low notes are not there. So, if you want, you can ignore strings 11 and 12 and just play E-9th without any loss and then venture into a wider tuning later on. As far as a sales market... they are not as popular as an S-10....yet. But, they are definitely worth decent money if it's a quality steel. BTW- I own a U-12 ZumSteel, tuned to Jeff Newmans U-12 tuning.
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 14 Jan 2017 6:49 pm    
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Back in 1979, when I decided I wanted to pursue the steel after borrowing a Maverick, I called 5 players and asked them what to get. One recommended an Emmons, One said Sho-bud, and 3 said MSA.

I intended to buy an S-10, and my budget was $850. I called MSA and they they told me they had a used U-12 for exactly that price, so I bought it. I figured I could always take 2 strings off, but of course I never did.

Thus, aside from those first few weeks with the borrowed Maverick, I've played a U-12 since the day the guitar arrived.

I think I was very fortunate to have started off on a 12 stringer. I especially like all the extra bass the U-12 provides and have changes on the 11th and 12th strings to provide roots for the A, C#, and C# minor chords, as well as those low cello tones I sometimes use.

Now, when I sit down at an S-10, I think "Where are the bass strings?"
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Alan Simon

 

From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 8:14 am    
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I am a newer player. Only been playing pedal for a couple of years. I tried D-10s for a short while but it seemed to restrictive. Either you were playing on the E9 neck or you switched to the C6 neck. Since my musical interest are not exactly rooted in country music, switching to uni 12 was the way to go for me. I love it but there is not much learning material or teachers out there for the 12 so you are kind of on your own in some respects. I live in the Nashville area and I was interested in a few lessons to get me going on the E9 tuning so I contacted a very well known steel player to all of us who gives lessons when he is in town and off the road. After telling him that I have a uni 12 he opted out of giving me a few lessons. He plays a D-10 and that is what he felt comfortable teaching.
Anyway, if you like big, fat chords and the lower register mixed with the mids and highs of a 10 string then the uni 12 will deliver.
Thanks, Simon
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 9:38 am    
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It's possible that the absence of a 9th string D might put some people off if it's a big part of their playing.
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 9:45 am    
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I know this topic is for the universal tuning. It has a lot of range and does a great job of smashing the 10 string E9 and C6 pedal tunings together.

I currently play a 12 string extended E9 tuning that has zero compromises for all the common and advanced changes on E9. It does offer lower strings as well for rhythm vamps and some of the C6 chord and single string riffs.

My next guitar will likely be a double neck with 12 string extended E9 and a standard C6 tuning. There are trade-offs in any guitar setup but all the top players I've seen with different setups seems to still come up with tons of riffs covering many styles.
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Christopher Woitach


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 10:36 am    
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A quick comment about the various universal tunings:

Bb6 is also a universal tuning, just less common
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Christopher Woitach
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 2:51 pm    
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fwiw, Doug Livingston plays "Bach" on an S12U, with great elegance. Saw him do it at the Phoenix show last weekend.
It was so hip!
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 3:20 pm    
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Doug Livingston plays everything with great elegance.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 17 Jan 2017 3:33 pm    
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I have a Zum S12U (single-wide) that looks to be the same color and vintage as his Zum SD12U.

Margie Mays and David Wright also played S12U's at the Phoenix show this year.
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 18 Jan 2017 12:28 pm    
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Christopher Woitach wrote:
A quick comment about the various universal tunings:

Bb6 is also a universal tuning, just less common


Yessir, well known super pickers besides the late Maurice Anderson are David Wright [gorgeous HD MSA] and Junior Knight.

I've played E9/B6 Universals off and on since 1990 and have some interest in the Bb6 tuning but just never pursued it.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 18 Jan 2017 1:55 pm    
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Did Maurice Anderson ever state the philosophy of Bb as against B? So much music is in sharp keys and many players like to exploit the sound of the open position; did Maurice want be able to play in E in the same register but avoiding the open-string sound?
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 20 Jan 2017 12:23 pm    
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Reece was first and foremost a jazz player. Jazz is often played by horns, which are played in flat keys.

It's reasonable to assume he tuned his guitar to Bb in order to be more compatible with saxes and trumpets.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 20 Jan 2017 12:31 pm    
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But he was in flat keys in his Bob Wills days, which featured mostly guitar-friendly keys. I'm thinking, without positive knowledge, that he preferred to avoid open notes.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 20 Jan 2017 3:03 pm    
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Although Mike and Lane are saying different things, they could both be right.
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Bill Cunningham


From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
Post  Posted 20 Jan 2017 6:58 pm    
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I don't think the tuning mattered for Reece. 5-6 years ago at the TSGA, he brought a horn section and they played the Steel and Brass jazz album. I was talking to him after the set and said something about Bb6 and he said "my Bb6 guitar is down in Houston where I have been working. That guitar (pointing to the one he had just played) is Jeff Newman E9 Universal. Go check it out". And sure enough it was E9 Universal!!! About 3 years ago, he played a D-10 on that show.

However, for whatever reason, I think we would agree his preference was the Bb6. Maybe he liked the timbre of being two frets lower in horn keys like Bb, Eb, Ab typical of jazz compared to a C6 sound? I believe Bob White also was Bb6 and Reece tallked of them woodsheding together a lot in the early days.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA
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Bill Cunningham


From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
Post  Posted 20 Jan 2017 7:01 pm    
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But back to the OP's question, S-12 Carters show up for sale on the SGF infrequently and get taken quickly. So, if purchased at market price, resale should be easy.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA
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James Jacoby

 

From:
Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jan 2017 10:40 pm     Re: Are 12 string Universal Pedal Steels popular these days?
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Stephen Gabler wrote:
I am wanting to know if a Carter 12 string Universal holds its value like other steel guitars that are selling these days. Are they easy to sell if I want to change to an S-10? Thanks!
Hi Steve.I don't know if you remember, but I bought my first psg, and pack-a-seat,from you. That was a very long time ago. Now I have 2 Carter S-10s, and one Carter U-12. My U-12 needs a little TLC which I am dragging my feet on ( a problem with the 3rd string finger) I got my U-12 for $1000, but I had to put a couple hundred into it so far. S-10s go for about $1500.Rick Troyer, or Freddie Little can set up your pedals, and levers. All three are set up the same, Jeff Newman. I'm running 5 KLs, and 5 floor pedals. I tune my S-10s, universal, so I can play the same things on the U-12, that I do on my S-10s. The extra two strings, and the wider neck, gives the U-12 a little different feel, but I can switch between the two without much trouble. My advice is go for the U-12, because you'll probably want one later, anyway. I live about ten miles from you, and if you want, I can bring an S-10, and U-12 down, for you to try. maybe help you decide what you want--or you can come here, if you want. They're both pretty lightweight, for steels. Let me know, if you want to do this! -Jake-
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