INSTRUCTION STRINGS ACCESSORIES MUSIC LINKS
 Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com for Steel Guitars, Strings, Instruction, Music and Accessories 
Forum Index
where steel players meet online
The Steel Guitar Forum

Post new topic Are 12 string Universal Pedal Steels popular these days?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  Are 12 string Universal Pedal Steels popular these days?
Stephen Gabler


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 8:40 am     Reply with quote

I am wanting to know if a Carter 12 string Universal holds its value like other steel guitars that are selling these days. Are they easy to sell if I want to change to an S-10? Thanks!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Larry Phleger


From:
DuBois, PA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 9:29 am     Reply with quote

I have owned a Carter U12 for over 15 years. It has been an extremely dependable guitar with great sound and it stays in tune better than anything I have ever owned. A guitar like the one I own currently sells for about the same as I paid for mine.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Stephen Gabler


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 9:37 am     Reply with quote

Thanks Larry! I am thinking about buying one. What whould you think a Carter 12 string (black) in average condition (some scratches here and there) is worth? I am going to look at it today. I am guessing $1200-$1400.What do you think?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tom Campbell


From:
Houston, Texas, USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 10:35 am     Reply with quote

Think more in terms of $1750 -$1800 for a Carter U12.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Stephen Gabler


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 10:53 am     Reply with quote

Thanks so much Tom!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 12:09 pm     Reply with quote

It'll hold its value, will take a bit longer to sell
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Stephen Gabler


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 3:19 pm     Knee levers Reply with quote

Thanks! Thats what I wanted to know. I went to look at the Carter today and It looked ok. I printed out a chart to see if the knee levers went with the chart... The knee levers did not change pitch on all of the strings like the chart showed. Is this normal?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Brooklyn, NY
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 3:29 pm     Reply with quote

If you are saying that the guitar is not consistent with the chart of this guitar that the seller is providing, I'd want to know why.
But if you are saying that it does not comply with a generic chart you found online...I would venture to say that there are more guitars with variations on the setup than there are with 'standard' changes.
Yes, there is a rough standard but no, there's too much independent thinking to find too many guitars that are absolutely stock 'standard'. Close, yes, but little stuff....there's room for a lot of personalization.
(Someone might say that I'm wrong re: there being more non-standard guitars....so I took some license. Sue me).
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jon Light


From:
Brooklyn, NY
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 3:32 pm     Reply with quote

I strongly suggest that you learn how to do stuff underneath the guitar. It is rewarding and it is just good to perform your own maintenance. Among my guitars is a Carter 12 and it has quirks that are good to know but it is a fine guitar. Plenty of help right here when you need it.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Donny Hinson


From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 4:30 pm     Reply with quote

Well, it probably won't lose much value...if its priced right, but you should take into consideration that Uni's probably make up less than five or ten percent of the PSG market, so it won't appeal to as many players as a ten-stringer.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 5:50 pm     Re: Knee levers Reply with quote

Stephen Gabler wrote:
Thanks! Thats what I wanted to know. I went to look at the Carter today and It looked ok. I printed out a chart to see if the knee levers went with the chart... The knee levers did not change pitch on all of the strings like the chart showed. Is this normal?


This is not likely to be a problem, as long as most of the levers on the guitar look familiar. If it's missing some, no worries.
If it's close to normal, just start learning on it.
Unless a guitar is just plain weird, I STRONGLY advocate newbies learn on what they have, and only make changes once they understand what they're missing in the lever they want to add, and understand what they're giving up by making the change.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 6:32 pm     Reply with quote

There are probably more Universal players out there than people realize. I would guess the S10 is the most popular followed by D10, then S12. Some people like a 12 string extended E9th tuning which really just adds two more strings on the bottom.

Posted here on b0b's links pages are some common Universal tunings: http://b0b.com/wp/?page_id=690

Also from the old Carter website: http://steelguitar.com/sampleS12Tuning.html

I would suggest you stay with one of these even if you have to make a few changes. I've seen some really messed up guitars with illogical setups that make the guitar hard to play. This can lead to frustration and lack of interest. JMO.

We might be able to tell you more if you can post the current set-up on this guitar.
View user's profile Send private message
Bobby D. Jones


From:
West Virginia, USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 9:05 pm     Are 12 String Unversal Pedal Steels popular these days Reply with quote

Hi Stephen. There is 3 different 12 string tunings for a steel guitar. UNIVERSAL, Extended E9th and Extended C6. Then varations of these. For Universal alone there is tunings by Jeff Newman, Sierra, Excel, BMI, Franklin and GFI surf the net will give you many different setups.

If pedals do not work check to see if it has bell cranks and pull rods in place. Many who are not using a pedal or lever will back the nylon tuning nut off so if they hit the pedal or lever by mistake nothing will happen. Good Luck in your venture.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ken Metcalf


From:
Austin Texas USA
Post Posted 12 Jan 2017 7:59 am     Reply with quote

A 12 string in split cases is nice and light to haul around.
If you want to play a little 6th stuff without lugging a D-10.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post Posted 12 Jan 2017 8:27 am     Reply with quote

Ken is spot on - that's why I converted. My D10 is basic so I could bring all my changes with me. I guess if you have a really loaded twin-neck you'd have to make compromises, but I didn't.
_________________
No-name 60s D10 8x5, homebuilt Uni 12 7x5, Hilton pedal, pair of Fender 112s
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Larry Phleger


From:
DuBois, PA
Post Posted 12 Jan 2017 11:43 am     Reply with quote

If you are planning to work on a Carter, remember that the bell crank shafts are hollow. This means that you should be careful not to over tighten the set screws on the puller. Carter warns against this in the literature they sent with their new instruments.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 12 Jan 2017 11:47 am     Reply with quote

Lane Gray wrote:

Unless a guitar is just plain weird, I STRONGLY advocate newbies learn on what they have, and only make changes once they understand what they're missing in the lever they want to add, and understand what they're giving up by making the change.


I agree 100% This is some of the best advise for newbies I've seen on this forum.

Right on Lane.
_________________
My steels are Magnificent! Stupendous! Awesome!
-----------
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ollin Landers


From:
Chapel Hill, NC
Post Posted 12 Jan 2017 12:13 pm     Reply with quote

I have both a Carter S-12 and a Zum SD-12. Both have an identical setup with very minor differences. One has splits on 6 the other on 5.

I paid a little less than the avg price for my Carter and it was in excellent shape. I'm watching the value go up every year.

I'm with Ken and Ian. I have never owned a D-10. I play 80% E9 and occasionally play some C6. But I have the added advantage of the lower 2 strings when I need to play some rock riffs without switching necks.

When I have the occasion to play an S-10 or D-10 the problem is not the copedent as much as it is the 12 strings. It takes me awhile to shift from 12 to 10 and hit the right strings. And there's always the "whoa" I can't do that on an S-10.
_________________
Zum SD-12, Carter S-12, Nashville B-Bender Tele, Eastman Mandolin a pair of Cube 80XL's and a few gadgets. One day I'll learn to play'em.

“I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.”
― W.C. Fields
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post Posted 13 Jan 2017 3:33 pm     Reply with quote

Mike Perlowin wrote:
Lane Gray wrote:
Unless a guitar is just plain weird, I STRONGLY advocate newbies learn on what they have, and only make changes once they understand what they're missing in the lever they want to add, and understand what they're giving up by making the change.

I agree 100% This is some of the best advise for newbies I've seen on this forum.

I thoroughly agree. My first guitar was a D10 set up with Day E9 pedals and the C6 ordered 85674. It had one lever lowering 2 & 9 on the E9. I didn't know how much any of this mattered or what to do about it so I just got stuck in. The result was that I learned basics without distraction.

I did add more levers later, but not until I understood why I needed them and how to fit them.
_________________
No-name 60s D10 8x5, homebuilt Uni 12 7x5, Hilton pedal, pair of Fender 112s
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mike Ester


From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
Post Posted 14 Jan 2017 10:25 am     Reply with quote

Got an '05 Carter S12U. I like it a lot.

Let's see... 87lb D10 or 31lb Uni? Hmm...tough choice. Wink
_________________
U.S.A.F. 1978-1982

If you can't be a good example, be a horrible warning.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tim Brady


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 14 Jan 2017 3:18 pm     Reply with quote

I've had an S12 Carter 7/5 set up to a variant of an E9 Extended for many years. It has a George L on it. It is completely reliable, just never has issues. It stays in tune like a dream, just perfect in that way. Seems to play easy, re pulls etc. The tone...well I sort of envy the guys with the Sho buds, and Emmons and the like. I can just never get my guitar to have the sweet, flowery, rich tone that they get so often. It sound "stringy," or if I don't watch out even shrill or tinny. Bobby Cox helped me out with my amp settings, and I got a whole lot of improvement. Maybe the tone is in my hands, but I still cannot get that really sweet sound that some good players get.
_________________
Tim Brady
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 14 Jan 2017 3:30 pm     Reply with quote

Tim Brady wrote:
...if I don't watch out (it can sound)n even shrill or tinny.


A graphic or parametric EQ might not give you the sound you want, but it would tame the shrillness.
_________________
My steels are Magnificent! Stupendous! Awesome!
-----------
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Alan Simon


From:
Tennessee, USA
Post Posted 14 Jan 2017 3:47 pm     Reply with quote

Try another pickup. Sure made mine sound better. Truetone or Alumitone.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bob Hoffnar


From:
Austin, Tx
Post Posted 14 Jan 2017 5:08 pm     Reply with quote

if you want to play an S10 get an S10. A U12 is a different beast. The trade offs between a U 12 and S 10'are significant. The U12 suits many players but does not have the elegance of a simple E9 tuned S10 steel. That is why the market for S10 giutars is so much more active.

My advice if you are just getting started is keep it simple and start with an S10. Once you get going a bit you can see what suits you.
_________________
Bob
http://themoodillusion.com/home
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mark van Allen


From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
Post Posted 14 Jan 2017 6:12 pm     Reply with quote

They are (popular) with me…

I agree with Bob on beginners looking at 10 strings, especially if classic country or americana is your bag. Resale, relative ease of setup, weight, and other factors all support that choice.

I only wish I'd not been discouraged from exploring the U12 direction when I first wanted to move beyond E9. Apart from fully chromatic chord subs/extensions, the U12 has everything I need from E9 and C6 tunings, with the freedom and fun of morphing from one to the other, and a whole LOT of stuff to explore into my dotage. So hip.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  

Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction,
steel guitars & accessories

www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

Steel Guitar Music
Instrumental steel guitar CDs for your permanent collection
www.SteelGuitarMusic.com

Please review our Forum Rules and Policies

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support This Forum


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for Band-in-a-Box
by Jim Baron
HTTP