Blackface Bandmaster vs BM Reverb

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Was wondering on these two options of the BM for pedal steel and six string and the pros and cons of each in feel and tone.

A distant friend of mine has a 9/10 clean 67 bandmaster possibly 66..., no reverb.. thus no rectifier tube. .. no sag... non original tubes he is thinking about selling. ..

Still dreaming about a SF Twin I played one time. ....juicy organic tone with a P90 equiped Tele.. How would a BM compare?

Any advice, even on value and expectations. .. or should I hold out for a BM Reverb? At what price?

Most of my steel amp experience is with Peaveys... eg. Vegas, Heritage VTX. The sag would probably be more important with a six string? Would lack of sag be a benefit for PSG?

I could run the bandmaster through an 8 ohm JBL D130F (how big a problem is the impedance mismatch? ), a 4 ohm PV BW 1502, or PV BW 1203 2x12 @ 4 ohm net, or 4 ohm 1x12 Blue Marvel from a N122.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

well, as usual, I have a take on this. I find the BM to be my least favorite of the Fender amps , a supposed 40 watt amp.

I owned a couple, including an original 1964 set and a 70' ish non reverb head, I think it was a 73, no reverb, no master volume. I found them to be very bright sounding with not enough headroom, it was fine for rehearsals and smaller gigs . The BM's to me, sound nothing like the Twins, any era , I believe because of the much smaller OT. You really can't push them up the knob and maintain pure clean.

If anything I would step up to the 50 watt Bassman for a mid size mid powered tube amp. I own one of these heads, mid 70's and it is literally a virgin. Never even been opened before me. Still has original E Caps. I have used it on a few gigs with a single 12 cab and it's pretty good, to my ears. Truth be known I don't want to carry TWO pieces so I never use it anymore. Plus add that I have to plug in some kind of reverb pedal as well. so, nahhh. Smile

I also have a 67 BF Showman head and a 2 x 12 old school Fender cab, , now there's an amp with some tone. But same deal , need to carry the head , the cab and a pedal of some sort. Nahhh..again ! Smile

IF a Twin is what you are chasing, just go grab another Twin and be done with it. There is NO substitute for a Twin , big strong power supply and an 85 watt power amp, hard to beat.

Remember, I said "least favorite" but that doesn't mean bad .
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J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Don't mean to pile on the BF Bandmaster , but I never liked them either , at least not for six string guitar. Bassman is a much better amp in my opinion. Nothing at all like a Twin Reverb which is a great steel guitar amp.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks for your input.

I am surprised the tone would be a whole lot different since my understanding is that they are all AB763 preamps. 40W would be enough fit my needs. A 20W Deluxe would be enough.

That said, a tube rectifier compresses transients so theoretically you can turn them up higher which doubtless thickens a NMV amp.

Aren't there any mods like maybe a MV and sag resistor that could bring a BM to life?

Jamie Mitchell · From: Nashville, TN

Mark Fowler · From: Minnesota, USA

A lot of my local players use the BM but put in Bassman output transformer (OT).

The BM OT is very small rated to 40w but no larger then a 22w Deluxe OT.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

I have owned a '67 Bandmaster (with its mongo-sized stock 2x12 cab), a '66 Tremolux (with its stock 2x10 cab), a '64 white-knobbed Bassman head, and a '65 Dual Showman head. All are great guitar amps. None, besides the Dual Showman, has the headroom to gig with a loud band on PSG, in my opinion. All would be acceptable pedal steel amps for practicing alone, or to accompany acoustic musicians.

The Bandmaster was the weakest of the four, and it blew up twice in the twenty-something years I had it.

I have moved on from the Bandmaster set and the Dual Showman head. I still have the Bassman head and the Tremolux set. The Bassman, paired up with a ratty old 4x12 Marshall cab, is perhaps the best rig I've every played for electric guitar. The Tremolux set would not be far behind, but barely has adequate headroom in a band situation playing a large room, and definitely won't cut it outdoors.

I'm considering putting the Bassman up for sale, but will never part with the piggyback Tremolux. It is basically a Vibrolux reverb, sans reverb, in split cabs. Never plugged a guitar into it that didn't sound great. A dynamite harp amp, to boot.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

The Bandmaster is essentially like the other Fender amps. At low power should sound virtually identical to a Twin, Vibrolux, Deluxe, Super, Pro, etc as they all are based on that same AB763 preamp. Some have slightly different values in the EQ, but they're all pretty close.

The Bandmaster, Vibrolux and Pro use the same 40 watt output transformer with a pair of 6L6's. They typically clock in around 37 watts or so. That output transformer tends to have a nice, squishy, compressed tube amp vibe when pushed. The Super Reverb, on the other hand, has the much larger output transformer so it delivers a few more watts and with a much more clean and "stiff" feel. Then the Twin Reverb or Showman is twice as powerful and is also very stiff and clean.

So depending on what you're after, the Bandmaster can be the perfect amp. I've used a Bandmaster Reverb for double duty - guitar/steel many times and absolutely love it, but it definitely gives a more dirty and squishy steel feel. Sometimes that's the best. In a loud band, the Bandmaster can't keep up, but in a quieter gig it can be more than enough perfectly clean power.

Count me in on the Bandmaster Fan Club.

B

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

And regarding the difference between a blackface Bandmaster and a silverface Bandmaster Reverb, the "reverb" Fenders have one additional gain stage in them which is how they mix in the reverb. Along with that added gain stage is a bit of sparkle that gets thrown in (3.3Meg resistor and 10pF network).

So my general take is the reverb versions are a bit more "tubey", a bit more sparkly, and a bit more lively, but not by much.

Brad

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

What would you buy Brad.... a late 60s 7/10 cosmetics SF BMR recently recapped w/ new reverb tank for 500 or a 9.3 /10 BF BM non reverb for 625... might need some light work?

Michael Butler · From: California, USA

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

I have a Bandmaster Reverb that I love. I found it in a pawn shop and had it overhauled by Bruce Collins at Mission Amps. Both channels now have reverb and are in phase, and one channel has been tuned to be "tweedier." I run it into a 2 x 12" with JBL's or a 1 x 12" with an EVM 12L.

The smaller OT makes it compress kind of like a Vox. I don't play PSG, but I've used it with both lap steel and regular guitar.

In my first band, the rhythm guitar player had a SF Bandmaster that he used with an Gibson ES-175 and a 15" JBL. It worked well for that. The steel player and I had Twin Reverbs. I don't remember the Bandmaster getting lost in the mix.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks all for your input.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

So I bought the D130F in the 1x15 bass cab and auditioned the 67 Blackface Bandmaster No Reverb, and the 69? Silverface BM Reverb.

It was truly a tough call between these two heads.

The BM had no tech work invested in it, but no apparent issues....was missing the trem footswitch...but the eq seemed to dial in the eq spectrum with this speaker and cab better than the BMR in spite of no mid eq on Ch2. The bass in particular was perfectly matched. Otherwise, the tone was a bit crisp and hard.... much like a Mesa. In fact it had a very similar vibe and tone as my Mesa Maverick.

The BMR was offered by a tech friend of mine and had new filter caps installed and a general tune up. All strong testing vintage tubes. I didnt think the eq dialled in as nice on the lows...but was in a much smaller room (small kitchenvs large livingroom ,so hard to really say for certain. However. Brad is right. The reverb channel gives it more mojo. More interesting to play. A bit more squish and more organic quality to it. There was the original footswitch.

in spite of representations on cosmetics... they were both about the same. .. 7/10... a bit better than average.

I thought the turquoise stripes in the silver grill cloth is stylin'... lol.

I went with the SF BMR. The extra mojo and reverb put it over the line for me... and the strong tested tubes and the footswitch. .. etc. If there was any real dif in eq response... I can probably tune the amp by using 1 different preamp tube or tweaking a capacitor.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Godfrey Arthur · From: 3rd Rock

The Bassman and Bandmaster are both fine amps.

Depends on what you expect yourself to sound like playing out of either of them.

I agree the Bandmaster sounds good playing rhythm out it.

The Bassman sounds good for guitar solos.

But these are low wattage compared to a 100 watt Twin.

If you need those watts then you know where you need to go.
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