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Topic: ESP 12 question |
Lee Bartram
From:
Sparta, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 7:51 am |
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what is the difference in a ESP-12C and the Travis Toy TT-12
other than one is 4 ohm and the TT-12 is an 8 ohm? Both are listed as steel guitar speakers? |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 7:57 am
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"EEK"
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Lee Bartram
From:
Sparta, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 9:00 am
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| sorry ! Just an old country boy here what does EEK mean? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 9:31 am
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I suspect that's the squeak of alarm as someone opened a can of worms.
They'll also sound a bit different, as the EPS was developed in concert with a handful of steel playing pros to sound good to the consensus, while the TT was designed to sound the way Travis wanted it to sound.
I cannot imagine that either will sound terrible.
I bet everyone would like both/either; but some will prefer one or the other
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 15 Dec 2016 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lee Bartram
From:
Sparta, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 10:02 am
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| Thanks I didn't want to start a war on what is better I just wanted to know in general if there was a huge difference in the sound or just subtle differences. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 2:14 pm
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Lane ,
You crack me up !!...  |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 2:41 pm
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I'd like to know too Lee. It'd be nice to hear from someone who's done a comparison and actually knows. There are some clips of the TT-12 on Eminence's website, but none of the EPS-12C.
The technical data is listed for ea. there, but that doesn't mean much to me without hearing them. |
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George Macdonald
From:
Vancouver Island BC Canada
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 3:15 pm 12" speakers
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| Tim Marcus, builder of Milkman Amps did a comparison some time ago on the Forum of 3 12" speakers, but I can't find it at the moment. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 9:13 pm
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From Tim Marcus, September 6, 2015:
The Double T and the Telonics and the EPS 12 are all sonically different. Lets see if I can articulate it with words:
First off, I think they are all great, but there isn't going to be one speaker that is for everybody. If you want a JBL kind of sound, the closest you will get is the Telonics. Its got an extended top end that is reminiscent of a JBL (although still quite different in the midrange)
The EPS 12 is kind of JBL like, but does tend to bark a bit more. The Telonics is smoother. The EPS has some sparkle but not as much as the Telonics. If I had to rank them, the EPS12 would be at the bottom.
The Double T is all about a particular midrange frequency. I think if you are playing in a large band, and there are 3 guitar players and a fiddle and you really want to plug your self in to that mix at a certain midrange frequency the Double T 12 will get you there. Its not necessarily a full bandwidth sound like the other Eminence options. Its much more focused on the midrange and best suited for the pedal steel.
Playing 6 string out of these speakers, I tend to prefer the Telonics because of that open, larger bandwidth sound. However, for pedal steel only, I think the Double T will take just about any amp and voice it for pedal steel. In my 300W model, which has a solid state output section, the Double T installed reminded me of a Nashville 400: midrange laser beam that can not be mistaken - its a pedal steel guitar!
But with 6 string, and maybe lap steel, the Double T is a bit off the mark as far as voicing goes. Its a speaker that was designed for pedal steel, so that does not surprise me.
Hopefully that makes sense. If you are primarily playing pedal steel and want to increase the efficiency of your amp voicing, the Double T is your speaker.
If you do double duty with telecaster and want to use just one amp, the Telonics is probably your friend.
If you put an EPS12 into your amp 5 years ago because it was the hot new thing - I would say keep it in there and don't worry about it Smile
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 12 Dec 2016 9:17 pm
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THIS is the "EEK"!
From Travis Toy, September 29, 2015:
That boost in the EPS from 2k to 4k, ESPECIALLY towards 4k is what my friend JayDee calls the "eek". It's pretty funny, but a pretty accurate adjective. That is what has always kept me and many others from playing NEO speakers. That sort of harshness is not your friend in the studio, or any live situation I've ever been in. It was actually quite challenging to get rid of, as the NEO builds really tend to naturally have that curve present. The goal was to have a nice top end, without the harshness that is present in other NEO options on the market. I believe we accomplished that goal.
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2016 4:32 am
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There are times in my life were certain people playing or singing will bring tears to my eyes (literally)....
John Hughey was one of those people ....What speakers did he use ? ....His high's were as smooth as glass and as pretty as they come ...None better 1!!.....Thanks....Jim |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 13 Dec 2016 1:20 pm
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| I have both the EPS 12 inch and the Travis Toy 12 inch. Both great speakers but very different. The TT has a different mid range vibe. You can't go wrong with either and the same speaker will sound different with different amps or speakers enclosures. |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2016 10:43 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
I suspect that's the squeak of alarm as someone opened a can of worms.
They'll also sound a bit different, as the EPS was developed in concert with a handful of steel playing pros to sound good to the consensus, while the TT was designed to sound terrible way Travis wanted it to sound.
I cannot imagine that either will sound terrible.
I bet everyone would like both/either; but some will prefer one or the other |
I feel I should interject that, while my speaker was indeed designed by me to get a particular sound I was looking for, I tested it with a LOT of my friends and pro players in Nashville. I also blind tested them, so they wouldn't be swayed by our relationship, and would be forced to pick what they truly thought sounded better. I had rather spectacular results.
The EPS series, when A-B'd with my speaker, sounds very anemic and weak. It kinda blew the guys at Eminence away. From what I was told by the guys there, the engineer that designed the EPS sort of did so under his own steam and had input from a few local players. It just kinda got made and went to market.
My TT speaker on the other hand, went through somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 prototypes before I found one that really spoke. I worked directly with renowned speaker designer Anthony Lucas, who also did Eric Johnson's speaker, for months and months to tweak.
I hope anyone looking for a better option for steel in a 12" will try one out. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 3:09 am
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Travis,
If there is a noticeable difference ( I'm sure there must be ) perhaps some actual clips of this speaker in a cabinet and other speakers in the same brand of cabinet going thru an amp with the same settings would be in order .... Perhaps 3 of the top speakers used for pedal steel , all in the same type cabinet with an amp head with the same EQ settings being used ....Play a pedal steel , and a guitar thru it ... Let peoples ears be the judge ... I like the idea of "more pronounced mids " .....Too many speakers have a boosted high end that pierces the ears more than cuts thru a mix ...and the flubby bottom end speakers just muddy the mix ...This speaker should have some good punch to it with the better mids being offered ... Thanks for building US a great speaker ...Jim |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 4:02 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
.....while the TT was designed to sound terrible way Travis wanted it to sound.....
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FWIW, I strongly suspect that this is a typo and not at all what Lane meant to say. I believe it should read
| Quote: |
| .....while the TT was designed to sound the way Travis wanted it to sound..... |
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
And thanks, Steven Paris, for digging up that material. |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 6:11 am
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| James Quackenbush wrote: |
Travis,
If there is a noticeable difference ( I'm sure there must be ) perhaps some actual clips of this speaker in a cabinet and other speakers in the same brand of cabinet going thru an amp with the same settings would be in order .... Perhaps 3 of the top speakers used for pedal steel , all in the same type cabinet with an amp head with the same EQ settings being used ....Play a pedal steel , and a guitar thru it ... Let peoples ears be the judge ... I like the idea of "more pronounced mids " .....Too many speakers have a boosted high end that pierces the ears more than cuts thru a mix ...and the flubby bottom end speakers just muddy the mix ...This speaker should have some good punch to it with the better mids being offered ... Thanks for building US a great speaker ...Jim |
I did quite a bit of comparison testing when we were in the creation phase of the speaker, in order for Eminence to hear the differences in the speakers when I was playing them. Unfortunately I don't guess I kept any of those to share.
Maybe that's something I can do when I get time (a rare event haha).
If you are looking for a modern sound, this is the speaker you want. The high end is very smooth and detailed without the piercing zing above the 12th fret. The mids have just the right boost to dig a spot out in a crowded mix. The lows don't back down to anything. This is a very ballsy speaker, but tight and punchy, instead of boomy and flubby.
In my experience of facing this speaker off against an EPS, it makes the EPS sound very bad. The difference is pretty large. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 9:49 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| Lane Gray wrote: |
.....while the TT was designed to sound terrible way Travis wanted it to sound.....
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FWIW, I strongly suspect that this is a typo and not at all what Lane meant to say. I believe it should read
| Quote: |
| .....while the TT was designed to sound the way Travis wanted it to sound..... |
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. |
And you're not wrong. I hadn't noticed the error before I posted it.
Travis, t absolutely didn't mean to say "terrible."
Being mildly dyslexic, I often don't notice my typos, as I developed the skill decades ago of mentally reverting things that look wrong into the thing that was meant
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bruce Derr
From:
Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 10:19 am
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| Ha, that sort of thing happens to me all the time with my phone's overly assertive autocomplete / autocorrect function, which generally costs me more time than it saves. A constant source of frustration but sometimes pretty funny, as in Lane's case here! |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 10:20 am
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Ha! Lane, I automatically assumed it wasn't intended as written. Either that, or it was the most scathing review ever. 
-t |
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George Macdonald
From:
Vancouver Island BC Canada
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 10:43 am 12" speakers
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| I ordered one for my Nash.112 a couple of days ago. Anxious to try it out. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 15 Dec 2016 11:00 am
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EMINENCE DOUBLE-T 12": 8Ω 300W 100db @ 1W
EMINENCE EPS-12C 12": 4Ω 225W 100db @ 1W
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Mike Schwartzman
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2016 3:10 pm
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Interesting comparison chart Steven...Before Eminence came out with the EPS, before Telonics came out with their 12" speaker, I asked Ted Weber (before he passed on) to recommend a 12" neo 8 ohm for my Evans combo, and it was very "JBL like", but I had to adjust to tame the treble. It was a Weber Neo Mag with an aluminum dust cap and a cloth surround, but rated for 80 watts at 8ohms. The amp had a speaker out jack and when engaged, it ran double at 160 watts with the 4 ohm load, and I ran a JBL 15 with the Weber and still had to watch out for that "too sharp" high end. But, all in all the speaker did a fine job for years.
I just installed a TT 12 (2 weeks ago) in that same amp and it's not even broken in yet. But without trying compare apples to oranges I definitely hear what that chart shows with the different mid humps. Of course this will lead to more knob tweaking, especially when going from front neck to back neck, but that's OK...I'm enjoying the speaker and I think designing that Double T 12 is a big plus for PSG players!
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele. |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2017 10:37 pm
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| Mike Schwartzman wrote: |
Interesting comparison chart Steven...Before Eminence came out with the EPS, before Telonics came out with their 12" speaker, I asked Ted Weber (before he passed on) to recommend a 12" neo 8 ohm for my Evans combo, and it was very "JBL like", but I had to adjust to tame the treble. It was a Weber Neo Mag with an aluminum dust cap and a cloth surround, but rated for 80 watts at 8ohms. The amp had a speaker out jack and when engaged, it ran double at 160 watts with the 4 ohm load, and I ran a JBL 15 with the Weber and still had to watch out for that "too sharp" high end. But, all in all the speaker did a fine job for years.
I just installed a TT 12 (2 weeks ago) in that same amp and it's not even broken in yet. But without trying compare apples to oranges I definitely hear what that chart shows with the different mid humps. Of course this will lead to more knob tweaking, especially when going from front neck to back neck, but that's OK...I'm enjoying the speaker and I think designing that Double T 12 is a big plus for PSG players! |
Thanks for trying it Mike, and I'm glad you like it. I think it's a big plus for steel players too! They have certainly served me very well in the year and a half that I've been using them. Lots of live shows, and lots of recording. They have delivered exactly what I needed, and what I always wanted out of a speaker. Couldn't be more proud to have my name on them.
Cheers! 🻠|
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George Macdonald
From:
Vancouver Island BC Canada
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:05 pm Tt-12
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| I just replaced the speaker in my Nashville 112 a few weeks ago with a Travis Toy 12 made by Eminence. Made a big difference in the sound quality in that amp. I don't notice any loss in volume with the 8 ohm speaker. In fact, I turned the volume down one notch on the amp. Probably the amp would measure less than 80 watts now, but it has more than enough power for me playing occasionally at our large Church. I do have a 500 watt amp head and cabs if I should need more power, but I really like the sound of my Nash.112 and it will do the job for me. The amp is about 4 or 5 lbs lighter now too. |
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Travis Toy
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:28 pm Re: Tt-12
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| George Macdonald wrote: |
| I just replaced the speaker in my Nashville 112 a few weeks ago with a Travis Toy 12 made by Eminence. Made a big difference in the sound quality in that amp. I don't notice any loss in volume with the 8 ohm speaker. In fact, I turned the volume down one notch on the amp. Probably the amp would measure less than 80 watts now, but it has more than enough power for me playing occasionally at our large Church. I do have a 500 watt amp head and cabs if I should need more power, but I really like the sound of my Nash.112 and it will do the job for me. The amp is about 4 or 5 lbs lighter now too. |
I'm so glad you like the speaker George. It tends to make anything it goes in better.
-t |
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