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Post new topic 7th chords in 6th tuning?
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Author Topic:  7th chords in 6th tuning?
Adam Tracksler


From:
Maine, USA
Post Posted 5 Jan 2017 1:52 pm     Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
Adam, your G6th has the same intervals as the C6th I tabbed above. Instead of F7, C7 and G7, you would get C7, G7 and D7.
Tab:
chord  C7   G7   D7    C7   G7   D7    C7   G7   D7    C7   G7   D7
B _________________________________________________________________
G _____3____4____5_____________________9____10___11________________
E _____/____/____/_____6____7____8_____/____/____/_____12___13___14
D _____2____3____4_____/____/____/_____8____9____10____/____/____/_
B _____________________5____6____7_____________________11___12___13
G _________________________________________________________________
notes  Bb   B    C     Bb   B    C     E    F    F#    E    F    F#
       E    F    F#    E    F    F#    Bb   B    C     Bb   B    C


Thanks Bob, looking at this, would the double stop for D7 also be an A7? (Since its a whole stop above the G7?)
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John Goux


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 5 Jan 2017 2:09 pm     Reply with quote

Using Bob's and Mike's method and tab,

"There are no tritones in the open C6th tuning, so you have to slant the bar. The easiest tritone bar slants are forward slants that skip a string, on two strings that are a 4th apart. The E(5) and A(3) strings are the most obvious. The other pair is G(4) and C(2). Here I have tabbed the easiest tritones, key of C, for C6th tuning: "

Same idea and almost as easy, are to take the strings pairs that are 5ths, and do a reverse slant to achieve a tritone. In 8 string C6:
Low to high. F A C E G A C E
There are 4 sets that are a 5th away. 8-6, 7-5, 6-4 and 3-1.

These forward slants and backward slants all work for dominant 7th chords.
John
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 5 Jan 2017 5:52 pm     Reply with quote

Adam Tracksler wrote:
Thanks Bob, looking at this, would the double stop for D7 also be an A7? (Since its a whole stop above the G7?)

No, the D7 notes (F# and C) are also the notes for Ab7 (C and Gb). They are a tritone apart. That's the substitution that Mike Neer was talking about.
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Michael James


From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 6:48 am     Re: 7th chords in 6th tuning? Reply with quote

Adam Tracksler wrote:
and I am alone playing these, if I were in a band, I probably would just play the major...)


Playing only 3 and b7 may not be a big enough sound. I think you need to use a 7th based tuning or a modified C6 tuning.
Here's a tuning that is fun. Raise the 2nd string of a C6 tuning to C#.

(L to H) C E G A C# E - Top 5 string E-5 G-b7 A-1 C#-3 E-5 of an A7 chord. If you don't need the low C triad you can also tune the 6th string to C#. Then you'll have a monster huge 7th chord.

The tuning I use has a 7th built in.
Cma11 (L to H) C-E-G-B-D-F The top four string make a nice G7 chord.

If you're using a single neck lap steel and you play C6 most of the time, and once in while you just need a strong 7th chord the 2nd string C# trick might be the answer.

You gotta love the steel guitar. It has so many options. You just have to find what work for you.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 7:24 am     Reply with quote

Use Jerry Byrd's C6/A7

Lo - Hi

C#, E, G, a, c, e
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David M Brown


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 9:42 am     Reply with quote

Stefan Robertson wrote:
Use Jerry Byrd's C6/A7

Lo - Hi

C#, E, G, a, c, e


And retune 2 strings and you are in A6!

G to F#, C to C#
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 9:43 am     Reply with quote

Stefan Robertson wrote:
Use Jerry Byrd's C6/A7

Lo - Hi

C#, E, G, a, c, e


To translate that to your G6th, raise the low G to G#. That creates a full E7th chord (1st inversion) on the low 4 strings.

G# B D E G B

You would still have the G6th/Em7th chords on the top 5 strings.

There's a nice rootless 7th chord position using the nose of the bar on strings 2 & 3, and slanting to get the 7th tone on string 5:
Tab:
     G7   (note)
B _______
G ___7___ (D, the 5th)
E ___7___ (B, the 3rd)
D ___/___
B ___6___ (F, the b7th)
G _______


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Brian McGaughey


From:
Seattle, WA USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 9:46 am     Reply with quote

I'm a little late here but my "dobro" partials mind thinks these intervals (although not chords):

The 5th and 6th of a 6th tuning becomes the b7th and the root octave. Those are adjacent to each other as strings. Major 2nd interval. Think of the 6th tone in the tuning as the root in this circumstance and the 5th as the b7 below.

Also the major 3rd and the 5th of the tuning up 3 frets becomes the 5th and the b7.

These are simple non slant partials.

These ideas do not incorporate the importance of the tri-tone idea of sound of the dom. 7th though.
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 9:49 am     Reply with quote

Here's a wide 3 note chord 7th chord, high root, no 5th.
Tab:
     G7   (note)
B ___8___ (G, the root)
G ___/___
E ___7___ (B, the 3rd)
D ___/___
B ___6___ (F, the b7th)
G _______


This is exactly what P6 does on a C6th pedal steel, by the way.
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Michael James


From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 9:54 am     Reply with quote

This is a little off topic.
I have the opposite problem. Sometimes I want the 6th sound and with the Cma11 tuning I can only get it with risky slants. So what I do is I lower the first string to E then I get a G6 chord on string 1 through 5.

C-(E-G-B-D-E)
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 10:26 am     Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
There's a nice rootless 7th chord position using the nose of the bar on strings 2 & 3, and slanting to get the 7th tone on string 5:
Tab:
     G7   (note)
B _______
G ___7___ (D, the 5th)
E ___7___ (B, the 3rd)
D ___/___
B ___6___ (F, the b7th)
G _______

b0b wrote:
Here's a wide 3 note chord 7th chord, high root, no 5th.
Tab:
     G7   (note)
B ___8___ (G, the root)
G ___/___
E ___7___ (B, the 3rd)
D ___/___
B ___6___ (F, the b7th)
G _______



Those two positions are my favorites for "a seventh chord in a sixth tuning" when playing a six-string instrument. Combined with the straight bar 6th chord in the root position, it's Western Swing steel guitar in a nutshell.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 11:05 am     Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
Here's a wide 3 note chord 7th chord, high root, no 5th.
Tab:
     G7   (note)
B ___8___ (G, the root)
G ___/___
E ___7___ (B, the 3rd)
D ___/___
B ___6___ (F, the b7th)
G _______


This is exactly what P6 does on a C6th pedal steel, by the way.


If you do a reverse slant in the exact position, you will also get a G7 chord

6.......f
x
7......b
x
8......g
x

The thing about using two notes as chords is that you want to pick them and not sustain them. If you can get a Red Garland feel, where you pick on the upbeat of 2 and 4 only, it is very swinging and along with the bassist, sufficient enough in some cases to outline the chords. Do the same for minor chords, too, playing the b3 and the b7. For major chords, you need to determine the chord quality. For a major 7 chord, play the 3rd and 7th.

It's so much fun figuring this stuff out. Enjoy the process.
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Andy Henriksen


From:
Michigan, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 11:56 am     Reply with quote

Jack Hanson wrote:
Those two positions are my favorites for "a seventh chord in a sixth tuning" when playing a six-string instrument.


Whereas I use the first one CONSTANTLY and never the 2nd, wider one. I know what I'll be working on this weekend. Very Happy
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Adam Tracksler


From:
Maine, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 2:17 pm     Reply with quote

Amazing wealth of knowledge here!

Looks like I need to take the train back to theory-ville!

I like the idea of the raised 6th string. I may try that out, as well as working in a vacation to slant-y town!

//ad


Last edited by Adam Tracksler on 8 Jan 2017 3:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jim Smerk


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 6 Jan 2017 7:55 pm     Reply with quote

Great info folks....even tho me lil' brain just exploded....but great info! Laughing Cool
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Steffen Gunter


From:
Munich, Germany
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 1:43 pm     Reply with quote

Jim Smerk wrote:
Great info folks


+1, thanks, great thread!
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