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Topic: Need best C6th instructional material |
Ben Godard
From:
Jamesville NC
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Posted 24 Dec 2016 3:23 pm |
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I have played lap steel E6 and I know music theory fairly well. I know the c6 neck is totally different regarding pedals. That is the pedals are more for variation of the root C chord. Rather than changing from the 1 chord to the 4 chord...etc
Anyway, I think I bought herby wallaces badic c6 book and I think I saw buddy Emmons basic C6 but it lost my attention.
I don't do jazz. I am more interested in playing typical 1-4-5 stuff. (Minor stuff too). If there is maybe a great video on C6 I'd love to Get it
Thanks for any help
Ben |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 24 Dec 2016 3:39 pm
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Either Jim Loessberg or Herb Steiner have some stuff, available in the forum shop.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 24 Dec 2016 3:52 pm
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I would suggest starting with Buddy Emmon's basic C6 course. I think you can order it from Steel Guitars of North County (Jim Palenscar). I think he teaches best how to think in C6 based on the courses I've seen.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 24 Dec 2016 4:04 pm
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| Douglas Schuch wrote: |
| I would suggest starting with Buddy Emmon's basic C6 course. I think you can order it from Steel Guitars of North County (Jim Palenscar). I think he teaches best how to think in C6 based on the courses I've seen. |
Yes, but:
| Ben Godard wrote: |
| Anyway, I think I bought herby wallaces badic c6 book and I think I saw buddy Emmons basic C6 but it lost my attention. |
He might need another approach.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 24 Dec 2016 8:00 pm Re: Need best C6th instructional material
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| Ben Godard wrote: |
| I know the c6 neck is totally different regarding pedals. That is the pedals are more for variation of the root C chord. Rather than changing from the 1 chord to the 4 chord...etc |
Actually, that's not really true... But since the Emmons course lost your interest and you at least own Herby Wallace's book, maybe it would be best to describe more of what you're looking for. Do you want to learn to play western swing tunes, or pop standards (Herb Steiner would be a good choice there)? Jim Loessberg's instruction, AFAIK, is just for jazz, which doesn't interest you. Many people have found the Emmons C6 course to be a great place to start. What was it about that course that didn't work for you?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 24 Dec 2016 8:43 pm
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I agree with Jim and Douglas, about the Basic Emmoncs C6th if you want a solid understanding of the C6th. I assume you have the Wallace 200 and 201 courses which are also very fine but I'd still go first with the Emmons course.
I can't speak for the others which were mentioned as I do not have them.
steve t |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 25 Dec 2016 12:05 pm
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Ben, I think the Emmons Basic C6 course is about as straight forward and basic as it gets. I feel like these other fellas. Not sure how else a person could learn C6. Or, I mean I don't know what different approach there would be, given the standard tuning with a D on the first string, the 45678 arrangement and essential 2 knee levers Buddy covers.
As I recall, Buddy covers it and draws fairly close parallels to how to think of different things on the C6 similarly for those already familiar with the E9 tuning.
Give it another go is what I think. Maybe ignore pedal 4 for awhile. Realize the pockets and positions you can really work with using pedals 5&6 and the genius of using the C to C# raises on the knee lever. Opens up a lot of stuff.
Takes awhile, or, it did for me.
Hope you stay encouraged to stay after it.
Good Luck.Bill. |
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Ben Godard
From:
Jamesville NC
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Posted 25 Dec 2016 2:56 pm
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| Thanks. I give the Emmons coarse another go |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 11:51 am
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For musical goals tied to composition and improvisation, the emphasis should be playing by ear, and learning songs by ear until the patterns of the fretboard intuitively develop.
Balancing with a modicum of instruction or even tab from a variety of publishers can help round out the skillset... exposing overlooked or underdeveloped possibilities.
One of the best things I ever did was spend a few months learning a bit about 8 string G6 dobro while jamming with some bluegrass musicians over 'standards'. The emphasis on melodic fluidity transformed focus on other instruments I play.
There are at least four ways to play and learn:
Memorization... muscle memory (licks, 'set' fills)... scales and theory... or simply following your ear.
It takes a little bit of everything to move the competancies up the chain while remaining effective.
In spite of this... if basic skills like picking, blocking or intonating are not at a sufficient level... no matter what is played will sound bad. |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 1:51 pm
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Stepping Stone Music has a fairly good course too. Risk s the son-in-law of Jeff Newman, I have had nothing but great things to say about him. He does an excellent teaching job.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 2:06 pm
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Here's an idea. Since there are so many excellent courses available, why not get several different ones. You will learn something from every one of them. And ny comparing the different approaches of the different authors, you will gain more insight into the tuning than you would by studying just one course.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Jim Reynolds
From:
Franklin, Pa 16323
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 2:59 pm
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Your right Mike, but it could be like I am, and very confused. Where if I would have just stuck with one, until I was proficient with it, I kept thinking the more I had the better. I kept looking for the ace in the hole, or a magic light bulb, that never lite. Just my thoughts in hind sight.
_________________
Zum U-12, Carter SDU-12, Zum Encore, Emmons S-10, Emmons D-10, Nashville 400, Two Peavey Nashville 112, Boss Katana 100, Ibanez DD700, Almost every Lesson Jeff Newman sold. Washburn Special Edition Guitar, Can never have enough, even at 80. 1963 Original Hofner Bass bought in Germany 1963, and a 1973 Framus Bass also bought in Germany 1974. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 3:14 pm
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I have a cousin who was a prodigical six string player. His technical skills were top notch and to hear him play you just knew he was a natural. Unfortunately.. he had a mental block where he couldn't really understand the deeper meaning behind the notes he was playing... so he quit.
The goal is to play notes that sound nice with the other music that surround it. Mental blocks be damned! |
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Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 6:51 pm
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Surprised no one has mentioned Jeff Newman's C6th courses / tabs / DVDs
There's a lot of learning in Jeff Newman's C6th products
Last edited by Ron Funk on 27 Dec 2016 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 26 Dec 2016 9:35 pm
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One way to look at the pedals on the C6 tuning is to think of them like the slants you already know on the E6. They can make things you already do more easy.
No reason to study things that don't interest you. Instead you could try learning some basic scales and chord forms and then transcribe music you are interested in.
_________________
Bob |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 3:33 am
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which is the best ?
There probably is NO best.
I got my early learnings from Jeff Newmans Music to Get C6th By, but it actually isn't a course but rather Tab and tracks to 10 songs. Much like the Emmons C6th course.
You really need to sit with ONE song and apply the TAB/Chord chart to the C6th neck and on your own, break it down. If you don't, all you are doing is learning songs from TAB which may or may not correlate to the C6th neck, or the E9th neck for that matter.
Now on the other hand, Herby Wallace C6th material is indeed built on scales and phrasing with the songs as a reference. Just the opposite of the TAB/TRACKS programs
In addition, Steve Palousek C6th studies ( DVD's) are not song based but rather position based, pedals and substitutions of root chords. He talks his way into your mind.
Whats best ? Dunno, what do you want to study ? HOW do you want to study ? What are you expecting to learn ?
Nobody's is best, each program has value, each are different.
Oh yeah, as Jim stated above, C6th peds are not just for subs and alternate chords , Pedals 5, 6 and 8 can and will become your best friend with regard to I, IV and V chord positions and subs.
Probably the very first C6th song I learned was Hold It , from the Jeff Newman program way way back, I'm talkin' way way back, mid 70's. Simple song in C, built on the 8th Ped ( root chord) and the 5th Ped (4 chord) I've been carrying those 8th Ped and 5th Ped chords around with me for over 40 years , add the 6th Ped chord positions and I've fooled a lot of people for a very long time ! Fact of the matter is, TAB programs are excellent as a jump start but we have to apply that "beginning" TAB to everyday life. Simplistically, work to sub those I's,IV's and V's up and down the fret board with the 8,5 and 6 Ped and your world opens up. Then add the subs from the rest of those pesky peds and knees a little at a time and your Universe opens up. Don't try to build Rome in ONE day.
One thing that can help, if we are thinking simplistic, I,IV and V ...
If we view any chord form that we learn from a program, as is, only as a root, 4th or 5th then we are literally killing progress. For EX; Sure C at the 3rd fret with the 8 Ped is indeed a root chord, but it's also a 4th chord in the key of G or a 5th Chord in the key of F. And so on and so on. Don't lock yourself into a TAB program position. Tabs are a guide, an excellent guide.
go for it, have fun but work hard. 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 27 Dec 2016 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 4:52 am Re: Need best C6th instructional material
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| Ben Godard wrote: |
I have played lap steel E6 and I know music theory fairly well. I know the c6 neck is totally different regarding pedals...
I don't do jazz. I am more interested in playing typical 1-4-5 stuff. (Minor stuff too). |
The truth is that 6th tunings are already laid out fairly well to achieve "1-4-5" and minors with no pedals at all. The "standard" pedals are used to expand the tuning to gain extended and altered chords for jazz-type playing... which you've stated is not your goal.
Now with that being said, I agree with the others that have suggested giving Buddy's course another look. He does keep the material within the realm of fairly simplistic Western Swing tunes in that book. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 5:08 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Oh yeah, as Jim stated above, C6th peds are not just for subs and alternate chords , Pedals 5, 6 and 8 can and will become your best friend with regard to I, IV and V chord positions and subs.
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This is true if the type of music you are playing is compatible with every chord being a dominant 9th or 6th chord. If what you desire is more of a direct triad change as the E9 pedals do, then the standard C6 pedal setup will be difficult to adapt to. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 8:41 am
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it is assumed he is starting from scratch. I,IV,V is a great place to start. IF we do not know where I,IV and V are then we will certainly have a much bigger stumbling block going forward.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 9:44 am
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I totally agree Tony.
Jeff Newman had a intro to E9B6 and he shows the I. IV and V with open fret, pedals 5 and 6 in a 1 minute video segment. That one minute of instruction goes a long way. Foundational.
The next challenge is building out the other changes that relate to it... particularly P5+P6... and P7.. as the next step so all I Iv V songs don't sound the same. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 10:01 am
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Fully agreed Tony... Didn't mean to sound contrary.
Ben, I guess some of us are slightly confused about what you are hoping to achieve on the C6 Pedal Tuning... If you don't want Jazz and already know Non-Pedal 6th Tuning theory. |
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Ben Godard
From:
Jamesville NC
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 4:50 pm
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Well I took the Emmons coarse out and started taking my time reading. I can now see what I was missing. I tried this coarse a few years ago and was impatient I guess and wanted to play some cool stuff. But anyway, now I'm starting to see just a bit.
What blows my mind is that he came up with the copedant and how it works. How can someone come up with that. He is like the Tesla of the steel guitar! |
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Ben Godard
From:
Jamesville NC
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Posted 27 Dec 2016 4:54 pm
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Tony
Thank you for your help. You have a very understandable approach of learning. Maybe because you teach it. Anyway, I like the way you explain everything. I thank everyone else too!
I think I'm gonna get some Jeff Newman stuff. He is the best in my opinion. I had his up from the top series. Was excellent. Long but good |
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