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Topic: eBay guy parting out complete lap steels |
Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 5 Jul 2017 8:17 am |
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As a person now semi retired who has spent his life as a luthier building, repairing and restoring stringed instruments, I see both the Pro & Con of parting out.
First of all, in my heart it seems so wrong to do that to an instrument that is perfectly good, or at least easy to restore.
I certainly agree with Bob Lee, Mike Neer and others on this post that destroying a good instrument is some kind of sin, even if not listed in the bible. 
On the other hand my brain tells me that some are certainly worth more for their parts than as a restorable instrument. When I was still doing repairs I often bought old decrepit instruments cheap just to have the parts I might need for a restorable one that I had or that may come in later.
In fact I got my start building by buying old Harmony's and Kay's as well as others with loose or warped necks, or cracks that I could repair and sell. Sometimes those needed a part no longer available.
I cringed at the sight of Jimi Hendrix and The Who destroying theirs, but hundreds, if not thousands of those were built, so really nothing special there. Just a couple of boards pushed through a machine the right way, thousands left.
I also got a Fender 400 that I was thinking I'd make knee levers for if I don't sell it as is first. There are so many of them around that one less original is no big deal.
Just after I made that deal I bought a 1960 Wright S-10 with 6 pedals in very good original condition. No way is there hundreds of these.
I wouldn't dream of changing anything on it other than perhaps a small repair it might need. I have great respect for Chuck Wright as a builder.
Another thought is that the more of them that are parted out, the more value the remaining ones have if that is your consideration.
Anyway, in the end, the person who owns the guitar has the right to do as they please.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Michael James
From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2017 8:42 am
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First off I must admit I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject of parting out instruments.
If every part is sold and nothing is wasted and hundreds of other instruments have been fixed or upgraded it's not all bad. But if he sells the easy to move items then tosses the less popular item in the trash, then I have a problem with that. Again, I really don't know how this works.
On the other hand if he is parting out a mint condition vintage instrument then shame on him.
The lap steel is such a rare played instrument these days. And players that can play it well are even more rare. I have to believe the market for this would be very easy to saturate and at some point it would not be profitable to this.
You see a lot of the Fender Champs parted out. There is literally millions of those student level instruments out there that doesn't bother me much. But the higher end Fender instruments does bother me. I wish I had the opportunity to buy some of the parted out instruments as a whole. Currently I'm looking for a Fender Stringmaster double 6.
I have mixed feeling on this at best. Most of the time I am against it. There's better ways to make a buck. |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2017 7:44 am
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| K Maul wrote: |
| I've dealt with him and due to a mistake on MY part( not his, but he cut me no slack) it didn't end well. He's not Mr Nice Guy and doesn't give a damn what we think so let's get over it. |
Were you one of the guys who didn't properly protect a sensitive instrument in the mail? |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2017 7:47 am
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| Michael James wrote: |
First off I must admit I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject of parting out instruments.
If every part is sold and nothing is wasted and hundreds of other instruments have been fixed or upgraded it's not all bad. But if he sells the easy to move items then tosses the less popular item in the trash, then I have a problem with that. Again, I really don't know how this works.
On the other hand if he is parting out a mint condition vintage instrument then shame on him.
The lap steel is such a rare played instrument these days. And players that can play it well are even more rare. I have to believe the market for this would be very easy to saturate and at some point it would not be profitable to this.
You see a lot of the Fender Champs parted out. There is literally millions of those student level instruments out there that doesn't bother me much. But the higher end Fender instruments does bother me. I wish I had the opportunity to buy some of the parted out instruments as a whole. Currently I'm looking for a Fender Stringmaster double 6.
I have mixed feeling on this at best. Most of the time I am against it. There's better ways to make a buck. |
Most professions involve either polluting the environment or polluting one's mind or body - so I'd say, there are many worse ways to make a buck.
There's a D6 on Ebay right now - just listed. They come up regularly and are in no short supply.
I don't toss anything - I sell everything down to the wire, screws, shims, and tape. People will buy the air that stunk the cases. |
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Michael James
From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2017 8:14 am
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Mike, I commend you on your bravery. You must feel like a Trump supporter at Hillary Clinton rally or vice versa, here on the forums. From what I see posted most people here are against the parting out practice. I am really glad to here everything is sold.
Thanks for replying.
mj |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2017 9:29 am
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| Michael James wrote: |
Mike, I commend you on your bravery. You must feel like a Trump supporter at Hillary Clinton rally or vice versa, here on the forums. From what I see posted most people here are against the parting out practice. I am really glad to here everything is sold.
Thanks for replying.
mj |
Haha, nothing brave on my end. Just found enough humor over the last few months of discovering the two years of posts angry at me that I should respond. I found the same vitriol (not among all of you, of course) in a lefty bassist forum a while ago and they banned me when I called them out for their ridiculous behavior. One guy over there was mad at me for outbidding him on a pickguard. Was waging assaults merely on that account. Really funny stuff. Glad to see this forum is a bit more refined. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 6 Jul 2017 9:47 am
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If this forum is more refined it's because there's a ton more talent than on lefty bassists.
There are guys on this forum that play lefty bass for fun.
Just tell us you'll get help in the future. Just kidding. Welcome to the Forum. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2017 6:41 pm
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
| There are guys on this forum that play lefty bass for fun. |
I laughed out loud. It's probably true. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jay Yuskaitis
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2017 2:27 pm This topic
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| Nothing the matter with a gent parting out his plunder as he sees fit. Seems to me the P & Ms would rather buy a complete Fender for the price of a single Kluson. I don't blame them whatsoever. No doubt these guitars were offered at one time for the price of a single tuner. Good luck to the seller, and tough luck to the P & Ms, unless you were lucky enough to zap a much needed part. Get over it, just like the election, YOU LOSE! Jay Y. |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2017 3:50 pm
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
If this forum is more refined it's because there's a ton more talent than on lefty bassists.
There are guys on this forum that play lefty bass for fun.
Just tell us you'll get help in the future. Just kidding. Welcome to the Forum. |
If ya'll wanna come together, donate $2500 a month to my bank account, I'll stop the chop-shop  |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 7 Jul 2017 5:33 pm
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Mike,
I for one have no problem with what you are doing. I have yet to buy anything from you (yet) but I certainly have been a repetitive customer of Hank Sable. (Hankeroo)
In fact, I do it myself from time to time.
In 2003 I found myself unable to work after a major surgery .... I had 2 (two 1977 Moto Morini Sport
3 1/2's that I owned and I parted them out on eBay. The Moto Morini is a VERY rare bike. I made a lot more money than I would have had I sold them complete. I considered selling my MV Augusta but never did.
I took a lot of flack from people on the Italian m/c forums for doing it. I persisted because I needed the $$$. Some days I was mailing out 12 packages a day. Mostly to the US and Australia. These parts were pretty much unavailable as Herdan the dealer had limited stock. Some guys had bikes that were dead in the water.... lacking a set of rocker arms, a tail light, fuel petcock etc.
Hankeroo has allowed me to restore several vintage lap steels and guitars that were non- functioning. For that my hat is off to him.
Many here will disagree but all in all these are great bunch of guys here, who are very knowledgeable..... chronologically older than most music forums. I am 65 and have been a member since the 90's. but all in all a great bunch.
It is your property.... do what you need to do.
BTW I have some old gold foils that are out of an old early 60's Teisco (Think Coodercaster) and few horseshoes that I purchased (sans guitar) that I will be listing on eBay in the near future, Hopefully someone will be able to put their B6 or Silver Hawaiian back in operating condition.
Welcome to forum!!! |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 7:06 am
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| G Strout wrote: |
Mike,
I for one have no problem with what you are doing. I have yet to buy anything from you (yet) but I certainly have been a repetitive customer of Hank Sable. (Hankeroo)
In fact, I do it myself from time to time.
In 2003 I found myself unable to work after a major surgery .... I had 2 (two 1977 Moto Morini Sport
3 1/2's that I owned and I parted them out on eBay. The Moto Morini is a VERY rare bike. I made a lot more money than I would have had I sold them complete. I considered selling my MV Augusta but never did.
I took a lot of flack from people on the Italian m/c forums for doing it. I persisted because I needed the $$$. Some days I was mailing out 12 packages a day. Mostly to the US and Australia. These parts were pretty much unavailable as Herdan the dealer had limited stock. Some guys had bikes that were dead in the water.... lacking a set of rocker arms, a tail light, fuel petcock etc.
Hankeroo has allowed me to restore several vintage lap steels and guitars that were non- functioning. For that my hat is off to him.
Many here will disagree but all in all these are great bunch of guys here, who are very knowledgeable..... chronologically older than most music forums. I am 65 and have been a member since the 90's. but all in all a great bunch.
It is your property.... do what you need to do.
BTW I have some old gold foils that are out of an old early 60's Teisco (Think Coodercaster) and few horseshoes that I purchased (sans guitar) that I will be listing on eBay in the near future, Hopefully someone will be able to put their B6 or Silver Hawaiian back in operating condition.
Welcome to forum!!! |
I appreciate the message and the welcome.
You provided a great service, "sacrificing" one to save perhaps a dozen others from a scrap bin. Sort of like organ donation; the docs are welcome to chop me up when I go despite my historical significance  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 7:16 am
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I don't have a problem with parting out old, beat-up instruments, but I hate to see playable instruments in fine condition destroyed. You use the analogy of organ donation. Organ donation does not kill the donor. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 4:57 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| I don't have a problem with parting out old, beat-up instruments, but I hate to see playable instruments in fine condition destroyed. You use the analogy of organ donation. Organ donation does not kill the donor. |
In some case, the donor is disconnected from life support for the organs so yes, this happens.
You and others continue to operate under a presumption that 100% of the guitars being recycled are pristine, built by the hands of god, and unmolested. Fender was the Wal-Mart of guitars (still is) and their claim to fame was their industrial process more than the product themselves. They were cheaper because they were mass-produced and over time, the quality declined (in the vintage years). Although Fender had/has some patents - the only other notable claim to fame for "historical" purposes is the design - partially due to the aforementioned interchangeable parts process but also due to the colors and the contours of the bodies and the use of pickguards to contrast, stylistically. Otherwise, most of the pickups, pots, tuners, knobs, etc are all generic and had no significant historical precedence.
In fact, on many Fender models especially in the 1960's and 1970's, the tuners were of lower quality and most sets are largely worn out. That is why so many were replaced in the 1980's and 1990's and the guitars and basses modified in this regard. The pots were produced by companies and sourced into Fender - these pots were generic. They were indeed high quality but generic. The wood under finish was usually cheap and had knots and many pieces together. The pickups after 1964 were mechanically wound and by the 1970's were entirely sterile. The "neck slop" that accompanies many Fenders in the 1970's is truly awful on some. Steel guitars didn't escape many of these details. The chrome became cheaper by the late 1970's; the cases were sourced in from outside manufacturers.
Prior to the new millennium, Fenders after the mid 1960's were considered of inferior quality and not collectible. Only with the advent of myths have they become collectible - however, the prices of 1970's models from all types of Fender have not appreciated at all since I started in 2009. They are literally the same they costed then, nearly across the board. Only ones I can think of that have appreciated markedly are Mustangs, some Duo Sonics, Telecasters, a few Jazz basses, and Telecaster basses. |
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Nic Sanford
From:
Oklahoma
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 6:56 pm
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Mike,
Still sound wild. No way you're going to take my advice to calm down and understand where the frustration with your practices comes from? What do '70s Spanish style guitars have to do with the '50s steels you disassembled? Also, likening parts sales to coal mining? You sure know how to relate to those of us entrenched in the working class. |
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Mike Hultin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2017 5:52 am
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| Nic Sanford wrote: |
Mike,
Still sound wild. No way you're going to take my advice to calm down and understand where the frustration with your practices comes from? What do '70s Spanish style guitars have to do with the '50s steels you disassembled? Also, likening parts sales to coal mining? You sure know how to relate to those of us entrenched in the working class. |
I can't follow your post. Perhaps that's why I can't follow your nonsensical "frustration".
If you think the clique of melodramatic egomaniacs who plague the steel forum are the only group of people who have gone on a bender because a guitar was taken apart - you're wrong. I recycle dozens of models of Fender guitar. 1950's steels have no differentiation from a 1970's Strat in terms of the manufacturing process and the historicity.
The fundamental basis for the melodrama is, "They have so much history!" They don't, they were mass-produced by unskilled workers for the sole intention of making money. Fender became as big as it was and is not because of artisans but because of mass production and generic qualities.
As someone who grew up in generational poverty to a father who dropped out in 9th grade and works in a metal window factory and a mother with a high school education who has worked for $11 an hour at a hardware store paint department for 25 years, yes, I can relate to the working class. One of my great, great ancestors died in a coal mine. My grandfather hitchhiked from the coal fields to my hometown to work as a furniture painter because he didn't want to work the coal mine. |
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Nic Sanford
From:
Oklahoma
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Posted 10 Jul 2017 6:51 am
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Mike,
When did I say that I was frustrated with what you do? I asked you to try to understand where others are coming from.
Looking back, it's clear that my working class comment was unnecessary to the conversation. I would like to apologize for that. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2017 8:17 am
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| Nic Sanford wrote: |
| Looking back, it's clear that my working class comment was unnecessary to the conversation. I would like to apologize for that. |
Well how 'bout that... an apology from one of the "melodramatic egomaniacs who plagues the forum." Mike, I defended you before you joined the forum. It's none of my/our business how you turn a profit. That said, your membership is not even a week old and you've been showin' your a--, since day one. A number of us welcomed you to the forum, and Nic was just offering you survival tips. Truth is, I'll happily reimburse b0b if he ever decides to refund your membership.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2017 8:25 am
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| Mike Hultin wrote: |
I can't follow your post. Perhaps that's why I can't follow your nonsensical "frustration".
If you think the clique of melodramatic egomaniacs who plague the steel forum |
Darn Mike, I was about to post in your defense that you didn't seem all that wild to me and then you had to call us a plague of nonsensical, melodramatic, ego-maniacal trolls. Guess I was wrong. I think Nic was just underscoring the fact that it is dismaying to some of us to see good, functional instruments parted out. It may be a more visceral response than rational to your way of thinking, but I don't think it implies a character defect. Nor do I think that taking the opportunity to supply a demand that obviously exists implies one.
Cars, motorcycles, vintage guitars ... it seems to be part of the life cycle of collectibles that at some point the value of the parts can exceed that of the completed item. If it's an enduring collectible with a broad enough market, good reproduction parts will start to show up and some of the used parts won't be as valuable. I have a shed filled with vintage Alfa Romeo parts some of which are much less valuable than they were 10 years ago for that reason. I expect some of the stringmaster parts that are now being reproduced are going to slow down your business somewhat. Maybe you'll take to selling some of the better steels that you acquire as intact instruments instead of parting out every one. I hope so. It has been interesting to see your point of view on all of this.
Disclosure: I bought that long scale quad neck from you just before you resurrected all these threads criticizing you. You gave me a good price, shipped it promptly and I left you good feedback. It should make an interesting project (or two or three). |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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