Buddy Cage style

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

Buddys style sort of defies all conventional thought when it comes to stage etiquette.
I was watching some videos and I am more than familiar with most NRPS tracks. Buddy is usually stepping all over the vocals . But at the same time it sort of works. What do you think about this topic? Would this go over well with your band? Thanks
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Brooks Montgomery · From: Idaho, USA

I think steel can definitely be part of the song's background melody during vocals, besides being a fill, lead, and call and response type spice.
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Brooks Montgomery · From: Idaho, USA

I just read what I wrote, and I guess 'duh!' Would be the appropriate response to my reply ðŸ˜Ž
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Playing "over top the singing" requires very special skills that a lot of players just do not have. You have to know when to do it, what songs you can do it in, what range to play in, and you also must understand and use dynamics.

I always this Buck Owens song to show how it sounds when it's done properly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-87wHsb8bXY

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

Jay Dee Maness is one of the "special skills" guys that Donny is talking about. He probably plays more than most guys during vocals but always tastefully and with a great knowledge of dynamics so as not to draw attention away from the singer.
Donny: I had Jay Dee's steel in Desert Rose Band's version of "Hello Trouble" in mind before I saw your post Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkeZqtpJMHc

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Buddy was one of the players that inspired my interest in pedal steel years ago. Listening to him now I hear things that are not for the purist, but the enthusiasm he brings is something that the more cerebral type of player can envy.
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Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

I usually consider playing full leads under, or worse OVER, the vocalist to be borderline rude and worthy of a sidewards glance, like talking constantly while someone else rightfully has the floor. The message being "I'm not listening to YOU, and I want others to listen to ME instead." And when two instruments BOTH think they're supposed to fill behind the singer, that about does it for me.

It's like watching Clinton and Trump surrogates talking a mile a minute over each other at top volume while the CNN anchors shrug their shoulders realizing that the airtime afforded each was totally wasted by cacophony.

If I should ever write my tome Herb's Rules for Bandstand Etiquette," Rule #3 will be "There shall be only one instrument playing audible fills behind the vocals, the other players either part of the rhythm section, or shutting up. The filler shall pay attention to the story of the song, politely playing only in the holes a correct comment to what the singer is saying."

Rarely have I heard professional players playing inappropriately; they don't get to that level by screaming "hey everybody, look at me."
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Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Jeff Newman did it on the song "Just Out of Reach of My Two Empty Arms"..His "Music to Back-up by" was one of the greatest instructional albums ever made to help one learn to play back-ground fills behind a vocalist..IMHO.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have no problem with Buddy's playing along with the vocals.
'Sounds great, when he does it.
Panama Red (studio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyPYM5uUViI
Hello Mary Lou - Live
Listen what he plays starting at 1:19:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrui9SojOE

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Pete that's a great example. I've listened to it with a friend, and the first thing he mentioned is that playing over the vocal thing, which he criticized. I think it's good. And the producer and the band obviously thought so too.
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I usually defer to Herb's method in week to week gigging life around here.
I try to sneak in as much Buddy method as I can when those chickin pickin E9th-ers come along, though Smile

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

as well you should, Pete Smile

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

The playing over the vocals in these examples is staccato, in a higher register and with a thin timbre. That helps it not obscure the vocals. Cage's style is sorta maniac and actually follows the vocal phrasing instead of weaving around/answering it. Mooney's playing is much more nuanced and complimentary.

But I don't think playing over the vocals would help me get any gigs and would likely clear up my schedule pretty fast.
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Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I think it is appropriate to build momentum, or reinforce musical themes particularly as a song is getting close to wrapping up, but doing it throughout a song can make it less effective overall.

However, this is more an observation of what is often done in arrangements, and convention does get boring, so perhaps the more important element is to get a signature band sound working and let the chips fall.

I am happy enough to hear a great vocalist chording on an acoustic guitar these days. Old age I guess.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Buddy Cage unleashed this method on the 70's Country Rock scene, to great effect!... But iirc, he has said that it was a take-off on the playing styles of some of his own Pedal Steel hero's.
Buddy Charlton, for one, plays alot of rippin' single-note Steel runs right through the vocals on some stuff.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

"Buddy is usually stepping all over the vocals."

I think you have that backwards. The vocalist is stepping all over Buddy's brilliant steel playing.
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Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Well said b0b!

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

James Leaman · From: Wisconsin, USA

One pretty lousy guitar player,that thought of himself as a lead player, that I played with for a short time used to say:"vocals are nothing more than fills between guitar solos". He meant it and played like it!

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Personally I'm not a huge fan of formulaic rules. If you have the ability to heighten the music, consider it an obligation. Smile

I think Buddy did that on Panama Red and made the track much better than if he had followed the "rules". But don't do it if you suck at it.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I dunno, I have no problem with, e.g., tunes like Hello Trouble and Panama Red, with that staccato, over-the-top playing in the context of a fast breaking tune where the notes come so fast and light that they just sort of skip over the vocal. Especially on Hello Trouble (is that really Mooney? May be Brumley), there was absolutely never any sense that the vocal wasn't absolutely dominant, to my ears. It's sort of like a good banjo player picking backup on a bluegrass song - it can be done tastefully if you know how - but often is not. (OK, no freakin' banjo jokes from you banjo haters Wink

)

But to my tastes, this would not work with a slow ballad or more mid-tempo hardcore tune like a shuffle. And a player laying into hard, long, dense phrases over any vocal (or someone else's solo) drives me nuts. I have worked with people who just hafta play over every damned phrase in a song and have no sense of dynamics. But I also don't hear any of that in these cuts.

And, btw, I emphatically don't agree that anybody was stepping all over Buddy's stuff - the vocal is important. Panama Red without the vocals? Surely you jest. Mr. Green

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I was playing country music for 5 years before I noticed any of the lyrics. To me, the singer was just another noise to ignore, like bottles breaking and the barmaid yelling at customers.
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Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

I still don't hear lyrics unless someone points them out to me.

J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

LYRICS! What is that? OK, I'll shut up. J.R.
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