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Topic: Beginner needs advice on e9 copedent |
Steve Huddleston
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 11:11 am |
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| Hi guys, I acquired a GFI s10 and I'm trying to learn. I don't know what copedent it has but I was looking on the site and I assume that I want the Emmons e9, right? The knee levers didn't seem to agree with what I found. Also I'm confused with LKL, LKR, etc relating to A, B, C, etc on the instrument. Is there more than one Emmons E9 copedent? What do I want? Thanks |
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Steve Huddleston
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 11:18 am
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| Of course on the knee levers I meant D, E, F, G vs LKL, etc |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 11:29 am
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Which GFI S=10 do you have? My wife has a GFI Expo S-10 and it is the "Emmons" setup.
A pedal raises the 5th and 10th string B to C#
B pedal raises the 3rd and 6th from G# to A
C pedal raises the 4th string from E to F% and the 5th string from B to C#
OOPS let me correct this.
LKL (Left knee Left) Raises the 4th and 8th strings from E to F. Newman refers to this as the "F" lever.
LKR (Left knee right) Lowers the 4th and 8th strings from E to Eb. Newman refers to this as the "D" lever.
RKL (Right knee left)raises the 1st string from F# to G#, 2nd string from Eb to E and Lowers the 6th string from G# to F#. I don't know what Newman calls this.
RKR (Right knee right) Lowers 2nd string from Db to C# with a "feel stop" at D and Lowers the 9th string from D to C#. I don't know what Newman calls this. Keep in mind someone else may have different letters or definition for the knee levers.
This is the factory setup as listed on the GFI site.
If yours is a student model, I don't think they have 4 knee levers.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit
Last edited by Jack Stoner on 21 Sep 2016 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 11:36 am Re: Beginner needs advice on e9 copedent
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| Steve Huddleston wrote: |
| Hi guys, I acquired a GFI s10 and I'm trying to learn. I don't know what copedent it has but I was looking on the site and I assume that I want the Emmons e9, right? The knee levers didn't seem to agree with what I found. Also I'm confused with LKL, LKR, etc relating to A, B, C, etc on the instrument. Is there more than one Emmons E9 copedent? What do I want? Thanks |
Steve,
Generally, the majority of the changes are pretty standard for the knee levers (2nd string lower, raise and lower Es etc) but the physical location of those levers can vary a lot. For example, some people have their E raise and lower on the left knee, some on the right and some have the raise on one knee and the lower on the other.
Let us know what each of the pedals and levers do on your guitar and we should be able to help you. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 11:39 am
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
Which GFI S=10 do you have? My wife has a GFI Expo S-10 and it is the "Emmons" setup.
LKL (Left knee Left) lowers the 4th and 8th strings from E to Eb. Newman refers to this as the "F" lever.
LKR (Left knee right) raises the 4th and 8th strings from E to F. Newman refers to this as the "D" lever.
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That sounds like Day setup to me. From your left to right, as you sit at the guitar, are the pedals ABC or CBA? |
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Steve Huddleston
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 12:10 pm
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| You guys are great. The guitar is the Expo model. The pedals from left to right are A, B, C and they operate like Jack mentioned above. However the left knee levers are opposite from Jacks description. That is LKL operates like his LKR. The right levers agree. Jack, did you type that right? |
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Rex Mayfield
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 12:11 pm
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| Jack, did you proof_read your post? |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 12:17 pm
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| Steve Huddleston wrote: |
| You guys are great. The guitar is the Expo model. The pedals from left to right are A, B, C and they operate like Jack mentioned above. However the left knee levers are opposite from Jacks description. That is LKL operates like his LKR. The right levers agree. Jack, did you type that right? |
That's why I questioned Jack's copedent.
You often use the A pedal along with raising the E's and use the B pedal in conjunction with lowering the E's and ergonomically, this makes much more sense the way your guitar is set up (and is the standard way for Emmons setup if you have both E's on the left knee). |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 12:24 pm
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| Jeff Mead wrote: |
| Steve Huddleston wrote: |
| You guys are great. The guitar is the Expo model. The pedals from left to right are A, B, C and they operate like Jack mentioned above. However the left knee levers are opposite from Jacks description. That is LKL operates like his LKR. The right levers agree. Jack, did you type that right? |
That's why I questioned Jack's copedent.
You often use the A pedal along with raising the E's and use the B pedal in conjunction with lowering the E's and ergonomically, this makes much more sense the way your guitar is set up (and is the standard way for Emmons setup if you have both E's on the left knee). |
Although... I do believe that Jay Dee Maness actually does have his levers reversed in that manner, so there is precedent. At least that is the way I've seen several of his copedants listed. Guess I should've watched closer when I saw him live to know for sure. |
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Steve Huddleston
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 1:03 pm
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Ok, I'm getting to the bottom of my confusion. I was talking to a real psg player and mentioned that I will sometimes squeeze knees together (LKL and RKR) to get a 5 chord, a B with open strings e.g. He acted like that didn't seem right and asked about my copedent.
Then I didn't know until about 10 minutes ago that RKR has an intermediate stop which I never shoved hard enough to get through, making me think my instrument was set up weirdly. I may not be the sharpest tool.
I believe all is good now. Thanks |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 2:48 pm
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| Steve Huddleston wrote: |
| Ok, I'm getting to the bottom of my confusion. I was talking to a real psg player and mentioned that I will sometimes squeeze knees together (LKL and RKR) to get a 5 chord, a B with open strings e.g. He acted like that didn't seem right |
(I think you mean LKR and RKL)
I don't know why he would say that. It's a fairly common move. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 3:02 pm
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Some people prefer to get that inversion with F lever and A pedal. I don't.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 5:40 pm
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Hello Steve,
Both-knee squeeze gives you the 5 chord, right? Try this: Your bar is on your home key, no pedals. Pick your strings, (4, 5, & 6) and slide up 5 frets, slowly squeezing the knees. When you reach 5 frets up, you still have the same chord. But when you release it, it resolves to chord 4! My point?
This is the BEAUTY of the steel guitar: That one can do the same thing and use it in so many different ways! LEARN ON! man, there are so many tricks and licks (and other things that may rhyme) to learn.
....................Pat |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 2:30 am
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I corrected my oops.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Bob Moore
From:
N. Rose, New York
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 2:53 pm Gfi
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| The student model with 3&4 is standard emmons setup. I just sold mine and it was identical to my Carter except I have a vertical. You can get them with 4 knees. Bob M |
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Steve Huddleston
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 4:46 pm
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| Pat Chong wrote: |
Hello Steve,
Both-knee squeeze gives you the 5 chord, right? Try this: Your bar is on your home key, no pedals. Pick your strings, (4, 5, & 6) and slide up 5 frets, slowly squeezing the knees. When you reach 5 frets up, you still have the same chord. But when you release it, it resolves to chord 4! My point?
This is the BEAUTY of the steel guitar: That one can do the same thing and use it in so many different ways! LEARN ON! man, there are so many tricks and licks (and other things that may rhyme) to learn.
....................Pat |
Nice tip, Pat! Now if I can just figure out a use for the 1and 2 strings |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 6:09 pm
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They're a V chord
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 6:29 pm
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Also, if you have the Winston-Keith book, there's an exercise that's VERY similar to Weldon's ride on Connie Smith's "Ride, Ride, Ride."
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 10:27 pm
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Nice tip, Pat! Now if I can just figure out a use for the 1and 2 strings[/quote]
They're great for scale-type things,and even more fun when you get the second string lower in there.The very first part of the kickoff on Merle's version of "Swingin' Doors" has some nice 1st-2nd string stuff going on.There's much,much more!  |
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Dave Dube
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2016 6:16 pm
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Hey Steve!
I found this a while back when I was beginning, compiled and written by Jesse Liete. His chart is VERY helpful and full of info. It is a LOT to learn and will keep you quite busy.
http://webpages.charter.net/dhdube/documents/Pedal%20Steel%20Guitar%20E9%20Fretboard%20Reference%20_DRAFT5.pdf
It shows 2 chord "zones". It helps to add a 3rd zone, with the A pedal & F lever, where the 2 zones would overlap. It shows where the chord groups are. If you can play by ear, this helps, too.
Enjoy......................Pat |
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