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Topic: Taking the changer cleaning plunge |
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 5:41 am |
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Sherwin-Williams (the local store) has it but they only carry it in gallons. I don't need a gallon or the price Sherwin-Williams wants for it.
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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 5:56 am
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Another carburetor cleaner user. Same gallon can with it's own dipping tray. Cleans much more thoroughly than naphtha does. CAVEAT: use it in a well-ventilated area. Then rinse with water and dry off part.
When reassembling I always place a thin coat of black automotive general-purpose grease with molybdenum on the changer axle and Triflow or Rem-oil everywhere else. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 20 Sep 2016 8:42 am
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Well, its done. I used carburetor cleaner (spray can) and let it drip and dry for about an hour. I then used the CLP and oiled the fingers (spread them apart as much as possible and let oil get down inside). Also oiled the scissors underneath. Let it sit for about another hour then cleaned the guitar and put new George L's strings on it. Looks great for a 35 year old guitar, that's been well used including 7 years on the road and still at least 2 gigs a week.
Here are a couple of (so so) pictures I took with my iPhone.
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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 3:04 pm
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Not sure, but I'm reasonably sure the black gunk that comes out between the fingers is worn aluminum mixed with your lube. Just as you can polish al. endlessly and the rag keeps turning black. Taking the changer apart is the only way to do a complete job. No small deal for sure. RP
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 7:40 pm Taking The Changer Plunge
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| The black gook that comes out of the changers is a combination of Aluminum, Sweat,and Some lube. I remember years ago a friend wanted a light weight bar to play his steel. I had an aluminum bar made and had it chromed. He went on a road to New England on tour. He said after an hour on stage and his left hand turned black. Had to go back to his steel bar. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 12:34 am
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Jack, beautiful Steel, glad to hear that it is back to gig duty !
When I cleaned the changers on my Legrande II, it was oozing black gook. It was not anything but excessive worn out lube that basically was near liquid state. in my case it was excessive new lube on top of old lube. It was not anything worn out.I seriously doubt the C6th changer has near the use of the E9th but they were equal in gook. Each string finger was oozing the same amount of gook, even the ones that were not connected to a rod.
The black gook is more related to a chemical properties reaction of the NEW lube on top of the OLD lube. It's not wear of the fingers. Does Dirt and grime contribute ? Sure. The black is oozing out from the axle between the top bridge portion of the changer finger. A majority of the lube added from the top is not even reaching the lower portion of the finger. It's sitting in between the axle, the spacers and the top bridge portion of the finger.
The changer below ( x2) required a complete cleaning. Each finger , even the ones without a pull rod connected . They needed a bath. The axle also needed "smoothing", the changer finger bridges are supposed to float freely on the axle. If there is any wear to be recognized it's on the axle, not the finger. Cleaning and polishing the axle took care of that.
You can see from the photo's that the black GOOK is living at the top, between the axle, the spacers and the finger bridge. Very nasty stuff.
In the scheme of things this was about a 2 hour ordeal to do a full cleaning and put it back together. ( each changer )
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 2:30 am
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Tony, the next step if needed is to do it right and disassemble the changers. Maybe after I "retire" from picking I'll do that (LOL).
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 5:44 am
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Funny Jack ! When I bought the Legrande II I knew it had to be taken apart, but not for the black goo, just for general cleaning which it needed due to what must have been "smokers" residue. After playing it for a few weeks it became apparent from the black GOO that the tear down was necessary. Fortunately I had another D10 for gig duty so taking the Legrande apart and taking my time was not an issue. I think the total down time could have been in the 20 hours ( +/-) had I needed to do it without stopping. But of course I would have needed to stop and take a nap every 2 or 3 hours !
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 3:30 pm
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Note - I posted in a hurry to try to get this info up quickly - then noticed it was done. Carb cleaner is a VERY hot solvent and will melt many plastics and discolor most finishes - NOT recommended, but you got lucky. It's one of the few other than naphtha that does not leave a residue.
Oiling, though, I consider a mistake. You're just going to run into the same issue again (the amount depends on how heavily you oiled and how heavy the viscosity was - the thicker the more problems)- and the more you oil it the worse it will get. Seriously, I recommend flushing it with naphtha now before it gets so sticky you have to dismantle it, and re-lube with dry Teflon.
FWIW the black ooze contains VERY little aluminum (or any other metal, depending on the construction.SO little metal is abraded it's nearly irrelevant. ALL oils break down over time, thicken and discolor, and it attracts dust & dirt like glue, which is ground into a finer mix that eventually (in a short time) turns to a thick, grease-like ooze - and THAT will hamper the action of all moving parts.
Naphtha was the correct solvent - it leaves no residue and will not harm lacquer, formica or polyurethane finishes nor plastic parts and is extremely effective.
Taking a gunned-up changer apart is best - but if there's only minor oozing you can try using squeeze bottles of Ronson lighter fluid, which is simply naphtha. I keep the squeeze bottles around but buy naphtha in gallons at professional paint stores - it's MUCH cheaper that way - and refill the bottles.
The squeeze bottles give you some pressure to flush things out. Again, I only suggest this if there's little buildup.
As far as lube, the only thing I use on pedal steels, b-bender mechanisms and other mechanical components that need to keep clean is DRY Teflon lubricant (NOT the ones with a mineral oil base). "Dry" Teflon has a solvent carrier with no oils that evaporates quickly. Many mention "paraffin", which is fine - dry Teflon feels a bit waxy so the term got into common use.
Any other lubricant - oil (no matter what type), silicones (possibly the worst "dirt magnet" you can buy), WD40 (absolute crap that should be allowed nowhere near a guitar - fine for garage springs, wet distributor-type ignitions and that's it...it's one of the dirtiest solvents made), or, again, the oil-Teflon blend - will cause exactly the same issue you have now (or worse).
Most of the knowledgable Fender pedals steel community uses this exact procedure (combined with polishing ALL contact parts) because of the number of high-friction surfaces, time between cleaning jobs (if any!) and the extreme different proper clean/polish lube makes on those guitars.
But the same is true of any guitar (pics someone posted above of a scissor-type changer is a good example of that can really get slowed down by deteriorated/dirty oils) - do it right once and you'll be able to flush any light amounts of dirt out with a squeeze bottle every few years, and lube every 6 months or so.
Use oil once...just once...and you create a dirt magnet, complicating future service.
(FWIW naphtha is also the recommended stuff for removing sticker gunk from guitars, cases, etc. - "Goof Off" is a tinted naphtha/fragrance blend.
You'll probably read a bunch of old-school posts recommending various oils - I used to use sewing machine oil myself. But I was also in the coatings and lubricants industry for 35+ years, and when dry Teflon became available I never lubed a guitar part with oil again, and have never had repeat service due to lubrication issues.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 6:41 pm
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+1 Jim!
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Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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