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Topic: Fender Legs, a solution...? |
Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 1:37 am |
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Hey everyone, Long time lurker, seldom time poster, and we return to the dilemma faced by rangier members of our community.
I stand at just over 6ft1 tall, with most if it in my legs, and since fitting knee levers to my Mk1 Fender 400, I've been having trouble with clearance under the guitar, when I swell the volume in, it's nigh on impossible to engage either knee lever!
So, the obvious question is, how to adjust the height? Moreover, how to do it without spending an absolute fortune.
I've already looked into extending the height from the bottom, by either adding dowel, or sourcing Fender's own adjustable legs. These are both non starters I think, the pedal angle was just too weird. After some tests with wooden blocks, mercifully, there is enough thread to extend an extra inch and a bit on the pedal rods.
The answer perhaps lies in the murky world of the plumbing industry. My reckoning is that 3/4" radiator tap extensions, added to the top of the legs, would give me enough room to manoeuvre.
The only dilemma I face, is thus; will the thread on the fender legs be compatible? Has anyone else tried this? Did it work? Will it even work!?
Thanks everyone,
H
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 5:10 am
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Hi Harry...If you send me a email with some pic's of the guitar and the legs I will be able to walk you through the steps to how to extend the legs and so they can be made to be adjustable...It's good that you are in the U.K where at least there are still good Hardware shops!!!
Carl. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 7:12 am
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| Carl Heatley wrote: |
It's good that you are in the U.K where at least there are still good Hardware shops!!!
Carl. |
Although all their stuff is metric sizes 
Harry, have you considered whether you need to extend all 4 legs? You might get away with just extending the back two and having the guitar tilted forward slightly. This would mean you wouldn't need to change the rods at all.
My steel is actually set up tilting back slightly (I had trouble using the vertical lever) but I've seen guys with it tilting forward too. |
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 8:11 am
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Hey guys, thanks for replying.
I've looked into it, and the solution MIGHT be in the guise of some 3/4-10 UNC couplers, married to the same gauge rod, only thing is, that'll end up adding about 2.5 inches to the leg, not sure if the rods will stretch that far...
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/67483081
The radiator extension was a non starter, popped down my local plumbing merchants today, but as the thread is much finer, it got to a quarter turn and moved no further. BUGGER!
I don't mind having it tilted forward, but I do think that it will be quite an extreme angle at 2 inches or so...
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 9:10 am
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You just need some of these to extend the pedal rods: http://www.mcmaster.com/#93620a176/=13smha5. They have all different lengths available. A simple coupling nut and a short length of threaded rod will do the same thing too.
Trying to add a coupler into the legs themselves is a bad idea for semi-obvious reasons relating to leverage. Just extend the legs with the clutches, put a short length of wooden dowel inside to prevent them from slipping. Add some external collar spacers to hold the pedal rack down in the proper position. Some PVC pipe would work fine, or I'm sure you could find some appropriately sized chromed pipe if you want it to look nicer. |
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Patrick Ickes
From:
Upper Lake, CA USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 10:40 am
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The legs are not adjustable on the early 400s. At least mine aren't. It's a '59 with stamped pedals.
My machinist neighbor made a set of longer rods and machined spacers from stainless round stock with both male and female threads.
If I think of it, I'll take a picture tonight and post it.
Patrick |
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 11:31 am
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| Patrick Ickes wrote: |
The legs are not adjustable on the early 400s. At least mine aren't. It's a '59 with stamped pedals.
My machinist neighbor made a set of longer rods and machined spacers from stainless round stock with both male and female threads.
If I think of it, I'll take a picture tonight and post it.
Patrick |
Yep, mine is a '58. You gotta really want to play a fender! I'd really appreciate any photos, the only trouble is finding someone over here that might want to do any machining...
With regard to leverage problems, would the same not apply to the later adjustable legs, I believe they were standard equipment on the Fender 1000?
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 11:37 am
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The later Fender legs may be a different size thread.
You want to extend form the bottom of the legs not the top.
Some ZB legs are 3/4-10...You might find a set if you ask on the U.K forum.
What do you have in the way of power tools? |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 11:58 am
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| Patrick Ickes wrote: |
| The legs are not adjustable on the early 400s... |
Ah... like this then:
| Carl Heatley wrote: |
| The later Fender legs may be a different size thread... |
I have a later 800, the threads are 3/4-10. Obviously a completely different setup though, both the legs and pedals. The pedal rack clamps onto the smaller diameter portion of the leg on the 800.
Still seems like you could extend the legs an inch or two fairly easily with just some pipe of the same diameter and a short inner coupler insert, or even a dowel of the same outer diameter as the leg like you mentioned in your OP. If you're only talking 1" extension, the joints of the extenders would end up under the clamps on the pedal rack, the rubber tip would cover the end. You could perhaps even try an insert with a threaded center hole on the rear legs to add some small appliance-style adjustable feet. McMaster-Carr will likely have something that would work for this.
| Harry Bohay wrote: |
| ...With regard to leverage problems, would the same not apply to the later adjustable legs, I believe they were standard equipment on the Fender 1000? |
I was referring to the leverage exerted by the leg at the top threaded joint. If you added a short extension there it would be under a lot more stress than would one added at the bottom of the leg. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 2:26 pm
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I always had new legs made. The original legs are one inch with one inch threaded insert.
I have had adjustable legs made to fit the endplate, and to make the skinner leg inside tube -- the tube that the pedal rack holds on to -- I machined one inch diameter sleeves.
Look here. This is one of my souped up 400s.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 3:02 pm
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Those early Fenders have a giant thread size for the leg socket. 7/8" as I recall. I bought an insert that steps that size down to the modern pedal steel 1/2-13 thread size. With those installed in the endplates, you can use regular steel legs ( but add the pedalboard band onto the front legs). The inserts are expensive, too. About $8 each.
Nice 400 Chris.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 19 Aug 2016 6:19 pm
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You could perhaps even try an insert with a threaded center hole on the rear legs to add some small appliance-style adjustable feet. McMaster-Carr will likely have something that would work for this.
Just like GFI rear legs
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Aug 2016 1:07 am
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All good suggestions gents, but what to do...?
I like the idea of reducing the size of the thread so conventional legs can be used, do you have any links or pictures to see the parts in question?
Tools-wise, I'm not particularly well furnished, and I'm only a modestly skilled mechanic, though I'm sure I can get a hold of the necessary tools. But if it's major work, I'd probably need to consult a professional machining shop, but so far, they seem to be fairly thin on the ground, even in London.
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Aug 2016 1:26 am
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Oh and Chris, that 400 of yours is an absolute weapon!
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 20 Aug 2016 5:05 am
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Thread Insert, 1/2-13 Internal X 3/4-10 External - No. 329-8
https://www.whiteheadindustrial.com/p-19782-e-z-lok-thread-insert-multiple-sizes.aspx?gclid=COy4msDuz84CFcYbgQodmt4Mnw
I would not really do it this way as the leg needs to seat properly against the leg socket... you may end up stripping the thread out eventually....If you decide to go this route I don't mind shipping them to you.
BUT...Why not just buy a new set of legs from Glen Porter...He makes legs for all makes of steel guitars to the length you want and they are excellent quality and not expensive and I,m sure he won't have a problem shipping to the U.K |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2016 3:07 pm
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I think Glen Porter made my legs.
You need to tell him which threads you have on your 1950s 400. They came with two or maybe three thread sizes in the silver frame guitars.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 1:58 am
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| Carl Heatley wrote: |
BUT...Why not just buy a new set of legs from Glen Porter...He makes legs for all makes of steel guitars to the length you want and they are excellent quality and not expensive and I,m sure he won't have a problem shipping to the U.K |
I'd love to be able to drop that kind of cash on it, perhaps one day, but I've got a few shows coming up in the near future, so I'll need to either not use the levers on shows, or find a solution that's cheapish...
The most plausible solution is turning some wooden extensions that fit snugly with the leg, and I just tolerate a slightly weird pedal angle, however, a friend recently suggested he could turn some spacers for me, but I'm not sure what the costs would look like, Patrick, was the stock material expensive...?
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 3:30 am
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| Harry...Go down to your local comprehensive school and see if you can talk to one of the metal work teachers...They have all the tools to do what you need...They might even want to make it a class project. |
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 4:42 am
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That's a great idea!
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 5:15 am
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| What part of London do you live in?...I,m originally from Cornwall. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 5:58 am
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I can't believe that Richard Burton hasn't chimed in, here (or that you haven't asked him), because he seems to be the answer to all things mechanical...in England, anyway. I'm sure he could come up with a low-cost solution to extending the legs, at the bottom, an inch or so. 
One suggestion I have for these guitars is to make shims and get the pedal board perpendicular to the floor, as the pedal design seriously limits upward travel of the pedals. |
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Harry Bohay
From:
London, England
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 12:02 pm
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| Carl Heatley wrote: |
| What part of London do you live in?...I,m originally from Cornwall. |
I'm down New Cross way, very quiet and leafy 
I've consulted with a friend of mine who restores VW's in his spare time, and has a reliable machinist friend who he's put me in touch with, I'll update when I get some progress, watch this space(r)
Thanks for all your help gentlemen!
H
_________________
No talent, but plenty of enthusiasm. |
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Patrick Ickes
From:
Upper Lake, CA USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2016 3:00 pm
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Here's the extensions I mentioned earlier. There is a BJS 15/16" bar for size comparison.
They fit fully onto the end plate sockets and the legs fit into them cut the same as the end plates.
They raise the guitar 2 1/4 inch. New stainless rods were also bent and die threaded to fit the stock ball ends.
Any machinist should be able cut threads on a lathe old school with out CNC.
Patrick
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2016 10:50 pm
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I made my own legs and i think they are 3/4" 10 tpi (threads per inch). I dunno how you get those over there though
M20 x 2.5 is what a chart gives as equvalent |
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Carl Heatley
From:
Morehead City,NC
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Posted 25 Aug 2016 1:23 am
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| Stephen Williams wrote: |
I made my own legs and i think they are 3/4" 10 tpi (threads per inch). I dunno how you get those over there though
M20 x 2.5 is what a chart gives as equvalent |
Don't use anything but 3/4-10 thread |
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