| Author |
Topic: Classic Country Music |
Allan Kirby
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 2:17 pm |
|
I am in my 70s and have been playing steel since the mid 1960s. There is now a resurgence of classic country music where I live in eastern Ontario, with a plethera of jamborees, festivals, and monthly gatherings. I played a lot of Classic Country in my time and enjoyed it. I remember when the bars were full and the money was decent. However, my taste in music always ran more towards folk-rock and the original guitar styles of Buddy Cage, Pete Kleinow, Neil Flanz, and Tom Brumley with the Stone Canyon Band. As a senior citizen, I look back at what is now called Classic Country and find that it does not appeal to me like it used to. I am currently working with a younger, energetic, singer/songwriter and am playing better than ever. As well, I just released an instrumental pedal-steel CD with my own original tunes and arrangements. I find today's audiences to be less judgmental and more open to creative interpretations of music. The Classic Country style will survive in the same way as Big Band music has survived. It will always be with us and that is good. Having said that, I will also argue that the steel-guitar is currently successfully advancing and adapting to music styles outside the confines of country music.
These are a few thoughts from a senior citizen, please do not be too hard on me. |
|
|
|
Douglas Krause
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 2:36 pm
|
|
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
Sounds cool. Too bad he doesn't have a steel player.
As for musical trends, there is good and bad music in every era, and every generation thinks their music is the best. I'm not famous or anything, but I've been a student of the craft songwriting for over 40 years and teach songwriting related courses at a major university. My observation is that songwriting in all genres seems to have suffered in recent decades primarily because of an emphasis on technology and production over development of craft. It's not that songs are generally bad, they just seem generally mediocre.
_________________
Sho Bud 6139, Sho Bud LDG, Sho Bud Professional
Rickenbacher B6, Gibson and Supro Laps
Liberty Dobro |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 3:18 pm
|
|
| Allan Kirby wrote: |
I am in my 70s and have been playing steel since the mid 1960s. There is now a resurgence of classic country music where I live in eastern Ontario, with a plethera of jamborees, festivals, and monthly gatherings. I played a lot of Classic Country in my time and enjoyed it. I remember when the bars were full and the money was decent. However, my taste in music always ran more towards folk-rock and the original guitar styles of Buddy Cage, Pete Kleinow, Neil Flanz, and Tom Brumley with the Stone Canyon Band. As a senior citizen, I look back at what is now called Classic Country and find that it does not appeal to me like it used to. I am currently working with a younger, energetic, singer/songwriter and am playing better than ever. As well, I just released an instrumental pedal-steel CD with my own original tunes and arrangements. I find today's audiences to be less judgmental and more open to creative interpretations of music. The Classic Country style will survive in the same way as Big Band music has survived. It will always be with us and that is good. Having said that, I will also argue that the steel-guitar is currently successfully advancing and adapting to music styles outside the confines of country music.
These are a few thoughts from a senior citizen, please do not be too hard on me. |
This post put a huge smile on my face. Check out the Beachwood Sparks album 'Once We Were Trees', they are heavily influenced by the Burrito Brothers/Sweet Hearts of the Rodeo but they've taken the art form into new dimensions.
Please pm a link to your music when ready, I'd love to hear it. |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 3:34 pm
|
|
| Douglas Krause wrote: |
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
Sounds cool. Too bad he doesn't have a steel player.
As for musical trends, there is good and bad music in every era, and every generation thinks their music is the best. I'm not famous or anything, but I've been a student of the craft songwriting for over 40 years and teach songwriting related courses at a major university. My observation is that songwriting in all genres seems to have suffered in recent decades primarily because of an emphasis on technology and production over development of craft. It's not that songs are generally bad, they just seem generally mediocre. |
There's steel playing on the actual album. The great Robby Turner plays with him, and his guitarist is off the chain good. Also, he bought a Zum Stage One and I'm very excited to hear him in a few years on the thing. Laur Jomets, remember that name.
Regarding your last sentence, I don't even know how you qualify that statement. I've heard albums from the 60's that are considered 'classic's that required lots of studio wizadry to fix the lack of craft. Look at Woodstock the concert album. I've read the actual concert was a complete bomb. The album has so many over dubs recorded in LA to make up for the substandard playing, technical issues and mistakes. Roger Daltry called it easily the worst gig the who ever played. John Sebastian forgot his lyrics. Tim Hardin was too wasted to even go on. CSN their guitar was out of tune. The grateful dead got shocked everytime they tried to sing into the mics. The movie is a great cure for insomnia.
Look at Exile and Main Street which routinely makes every top 10 list, the album was a complete train wreck and had to be fixed in post production. To this day I think that album is 40% killer and 60% filler. Led Zeppelins Song Remains the same had to be redone on a sound stage, not to mention all of the plagarism they have done....I could go on and on and on with all the flaws of 60's 70's music that is constantly thrown out as the gold standard of music. I love it all, but I'm not going to buy any argument claiming it was better back then. |
|
|
|
Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 5:18 pm
|
|
Ray, I respect the fact that you've spoken your mind and also feel for you and others who have been following country music all these years and have to see it going where it's been going in recent years. Stylistic changes happen with the times (and technology), but the bro country that has taken over commercial country is a new kind of terrible.
That said, I find your post to be generalizing, ignorant, and borderline offensive. The forum is an international community, and music is for everyone to enjoy. I mean, Alan Jackson did say "The Whole World's Gone Country", did he not?
Sorry to jump on your back about it. I know sometimes things can really take a different tone when they're printed rather than spoken. |
|
|
|
Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 5:37 pm Re: Classic Country Music
|
|
| Ray Lamoureux wrote: |
| Will classic country music ever come back?Nowdays, most bars are gone,The young folks are to busy with the latest electronics.Imagriments don't like country music.Do you ever see these people carry a US FLAG??Us steel players are in that age group when country music was popular.What are your thoughts about the classic country music??? |
Ray's post seems pretty much spot on to me.
Mitch |
|
|
|
Douglas Krause
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 10 Aug 2016 6:30 pm
|
|
Hey Mark. First, I'll concede that this is a subjective argument. Like I said in my post, there's good and bad in every era. There is a lot of good music today. My students turn me on to it all the time as do my kids and grandkids. I find some of it myself. I used to find a lot of good songs on the radio (years ago). Now, I have to google search and listen on YouTube. When I turn on the radio today, I hear mostly mediocrity, and I refer primarily to the songwriting. But I might be having difficulty understanding a new aesthetic of what a song should be. In any case, that's where I'm coming from and that's how I can say what I said.
By the way, thanks for sharing another cool artist/band that I would never have found on my own and wouldn't be able to hear except for YouTube.
_________________
Sho Bud 6139, Sho Bud LDG, Sho Bud Professional
Rickenbacher B6, Gibson and Supro Laps
Liberty Dobro |
|
|
|
Doug Paluch
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 4:24 am
|
|
| New "Country" music has little in common with what I consider to be country. Unfortunately, Nashville is pandering to young country fans, and they want to hear "bro" country. Luckily, with such diversity in the music world today, one doesn't need to stick to mainstream radio to find all kinds of great music for whatever genre they listen to. You may have to do a little searching for it though. I hear Margo Price and Sturgill Simpson, and I hear a lot of what made country great back in "the day." Mainstream isn't shoving it down my throat though. |
|
|
|
Ben Lawson
From:
Brooksville Florida
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 4:32 am
|
|
I have a friend that is in management on a country station in Florida. He told me traditional country music is making its way back to country radio. I like some of the new music but not all of it. I think artists like Jake Hooker, Bobby Flores, Justin Travino and the always popular Johnny Bush have kept tradition going. Now we have youngsters like Mo Pitney and some other "kids" moving it forward.
Someone on this Forum once said "if you play steel in a new country band make the song yours". I think we can have it all if we just let them know we're here. |
|
|
|
Ray Lamoureux
From:
Hartford,New York, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 5:47 am Classic Country Music
|
|
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
I listened to it & hes is a real good artist & band.I don't see any fiddle & pedal steel.The new country has some fiddle,But no steel guitar.I always see pedal steel can be played in any type of music.
_________________
Ray Lamoureux,Hartford,NY GFI 10st.,on double frame,& aTT-112 amp .. |
|
|
|
Ray Lamoureux
From:
Hartford,New York, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 5:53 am Classic Country Music
|
|
| Ben Lawson wrote: |
I have a friend that is in management on a country station in Florida. He told me traditional country music is making its way back to country radio. I like some of the new music but not all of it. I think artists like Jake Hooker, Bobby Flores, Justin Travino and the always popular Johnny Bush have kept tradition going. Now we have youngsters like Mo Pitney and some other "kids" moving it forward.
Someone on this Forum once said "if you play steel in a new country band make the song yours". I think we can have it all if we just let them know we're here. |
I'm with you& a great answer.On my computer.I go to Texas for great Country music,That seems where it is for now.
_________________
Ray Lamoureux,Hartford,NY GFI 10st.,on double frame,& aTT-112 amp .. |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 6:02 am Re: Classic Country Music
|
|
| Ray Lamoureux wrote: |
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
I listened to it & hes is a real good artist & band.I don't see any fiddle & pedal steel.The new country has some fiddle,But no steel guitar.I always see pedal steel can be played in any type of music. |
Why is a fiddle and pedal steel required for the music to be good country music? What is country music? I love both instruments, but I've heard 100's of songs that don't feature those instruments. Johnny Cash never had a fiddle or a pedal steel on so many of his recordings. |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 6:21 am
|
|
| Douglas Krause wrote: |
Hey Mark. First, I'll concede that this is a subjective argument. Like I said in my post, there's good and bad in every era. There is a lot of good music today. My students turn me on to it all the time as do my kids and grandkids. I find some of it myself. I used to find a lot of good songs on the radio (years ago). Now, I have to google search and listen on YouTube. When I turn on the radio today, I hear mostly mediocrity, and I refer primarily to the songwriting. But I might be having difficulty understanding a new aesthetic of what a song should be. In any case, that's where I'm coming from and that's how I can say what I said.
By the way, thanks for sharing another cool artist/band that I would never have found on my own and wouldn't be able to hear except for YouTube. |
Douglas, there's no problem listening to a song and saying I don't like it or find flaws with it. I find often these days people paint broad strokes saying an entire generations music is awful or an artist is awful without even listening to it.
The good music is out there, but you are less likely to find it on the radio. The internet has opened up so many incredible opportunities for us to take control of what we listen to and to discover so many incredible artists in the 21st century. This is hands down the best time for music fans. |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 8:17 am Re: Classic Country Music
|
|
| Ray Lamoureux wrote: |
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
I listened to it & hes is a real good artist & band.I don't see any fiddle & pedal steel.The new country has some fiddle,But no steel guitar.I always see pedal steel can be played in any type of music. |
That clip is from 2014. He played on The Daily Show a couple of months ago, and Laur Joamets, the guitar player in that clip, played pedal steel. (It seems the Daily Show clip is no longer available on the web.) Apparently Dan Dugmore played steel on the studio recording.
http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/24365-sturgill-simpsons-laur-joamets-from-estonia-to-nashville?page=1 |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 8:49 am Re: Classic Country Music
|
|
| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| Ray Lamoureux wrote: |
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
I listened to it & hes is a real good artist & band.I don't see any fiddle & pedal steel.The new country has some fiddle,But no steel guitar.I always see pedal steel can be played in any type of music. |
That clip is from 2014. He played on The Daily Show a couple of months ago, and Laur Joamets, the guitar player in that clip, played pedal steel. (It seems the Daily Show clip is no longer available on the web.) Apparently Dan Dugmore played steel on the studio recording.
http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/24365-sturgill-simpsons-laur-joamets-from-estonia-to-nashville?page=1 |
You are correct Dan Dugmore is on Sailors Guide To Earth, Robby Turner is on High Top Mountain the first album. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 4:06 pm
|
|
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
Geeze Mark, I think you're more than a little jaded. I see nothing really new or groundbreaking in that video, the song, the singer, the band and the overall sound, which all seem quite mainstream and generic, and pretty similar to too many groups of the past 20-30 years. No steel, compressed-crunchy Tele, and singing that I can't always understand. Sorry, I may just be a poor listener, but I'm not drawn to most of that stuff.
Now, this clip (below) of the group is a lot more unique and different, and it features a steel. But honestly, I can't get past the intonation issues on the vocal. (Admittedly, "Fans" might not have that problem.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqJ7PxBy8Og
Lastly, I'm going to go out on a limb here and just suggest that any mention of Woodstock in a discussion of classic country music is more than a little "off the rails and in a ditch".  |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2016 6:58 pm
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzYp-4_Egg
I don't know how anyone can listen to this and not find their selves drawn right into the sound.
His album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. |
Geeze Mark, I think you're more than a little jaded. I see nothing really new or groundbreaking in that video, the song, the singer, the band and the overall sound, which all seem quite mainstream and generic, and pretty similar to too many groups of the past 20-30 years. No steel, compressed-crunchy Tele, and singing that I can't always understand. Sorry, I may just be a poor listener, but I'm not drawn to most of that stuff.
Now, this clip (below) of the group is a lot more unique and different, and it features a steel. But honestly, I can't get past the intonation issues on the vocal. (Admittedly, "Fans" might not have that problem.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqJ7PxBy8Og
Lastly, I'm going to go out on a limb here and just suggest that any mention of Woodstock in a discussion of classic country music is more than a little "off the rails and in a ditch". |
I said the album 'Metamodern Sounds in Country Music' has taken the art form into the 21st century. That performance on Letterman is pretty straight ahead but it's so good.
And Norwegian Speed Metal, Pink Floyd, Led Zep and hip hop have already been mentioned in this thread by other posters so why not throw Woodstock out there as well? These discussions are always ridiculous anyways. |
|
|
|
Graham
From:
Marmora, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 3:26 am
|
|
Mark:
FYI, Johnny Cash had steel guitar on 3 songs on only 1 lp. Steel Player was Don Helms.
The lp was "Now There Was A Song", released in 1960.
_________________
Rebel� |
|
|
|
John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 6:00 am
|
|
| Ben Lawson wrote: |
| I think artists like Jake Hooker, Bobby Flores, Justin Travino and the always popular Johnny Bush have kept tradition going. |
And don't forget Tommy Hooker as well. I wonder if he and Jake are related? Don't look anything alike, but boy can they bring back the Honky Tonk sound of my misspent youth! |
|
|
|
Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 7:38 am
|
|
Donny Hinson wrote:
| Quote: |
| Lastly, I'm going to go out on a limb here and just suggest that any mention of Woodstock in a discussion of classic country music is more than a little "off the rails and in a ditch". Laughing |
Actually there were a few performers there who employed steel on their records. John Sebastian, Country Joe, Joan Baez and Tim Hardin.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 9:06 am
|
|
| Joachim Kettner wrote: |
Donny Hinson wrote:
| Quote: |
| Lastly, I'm going to go out on a limb here and just suggest that any mention of Woodstock in a discussion of classic country music is more than a little "off the rails and in a ditch". Laughing |
Actually there were a few performers there who employed steel on their records. John Sebastian, Country Joe, Joan Baez and Tim Hardin. |
You are correct, the first day was supposed to be the 'folk' day of the festival.
Don't forget about the steel on CSNY's album as well. |
|
|
|
Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 9:11 am
|
|
That's interesting! Never heard of the name for the first day.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 9:39 am
|
|
| Joachim Kettner wrote: |
| That's interesting! Never heard of the name for the first day. |
I don't know if it was the official name of it, but I had read before the first day was supposed to be dedicated to folk.
They had so many scheduling disasters during that festival though and they had to plug a lot of holes so I'm sure a lot of things didn't go as planned. |
|
|
|
Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 10:22 am
|
|
Donny Hison wrote:
| Quote: |
Now, this clip (below) of the group is a lot more unique and different, and it features a steel. But honestly, I can't get past the intonation issues on the vocal. (Admittedly, "Fans" might not have that problem.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqJ7PxBy8Og
|
I agree, maybe bad monitoring since he got up from his seat to find a diffeent spot.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
|
|
|
Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
|
Posted 13 Aug 2016 12:02 pm
|
|
| Graham wrote: |
Mark:
FYI, Johnny Cash had steel guitar on 3 songs on only 1 lp. Steel Player was Don Helms.
The lp was "Now There Was A Song", released in 1960.
|
Thanks for that tidbit, Graham. You're not trying to get all ironic on us with that 1960 album title, are you?  |
|
|
|
