Switching a plain 6th to wound

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

Hi,hopefully I can get some pointers on this; On my GFI ultra i'd like to try a wound .022 in place of the plain .020- I had good luck on my Fesse,the problem being the split with the B pedal; The fesse has split screws on the changer- pretty straight forward; I had a rod installed for the split on the GFI.. there's a compensator to the A pedal so all 3 raises are spoken for. Is there a sequence I need to go thru or ??
any help would be appreciated, thanks.
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

IF I am understanding the situation, consider the fact that you will have less need for a compensator on the 6th string once you put a wound string on there. So you could ditch that rod and use the hole for the extra raise rod from the lower lever.

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John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

Jon-thanks for the reply- I didn't think of not needing the compensator; with the plain I was getting about a 15-20 cent drop with the A/F combination. so..since I already have the split rod, is it just a matter of getting more throw on the bellcrank and/or moving the lever stop with the wound string?
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm a little confused but let me just address the things I am solid on.

You need more throw and/or leverage with the wound 6th string. On my Fessenden, the G#>F# lower lever requires a VERY long throw (as compared with a plain string). In fact, for this reason I have changed back to a plain 6th and then changed back again to the wound because of how much more stable it is re: cabinet drop.

And the B pedal may or may not need a leverage change---how the raise syncs with the 3rd string will be the biggest issue that might require changing the bellcrank hole/slot.

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

Jon-I reread my original post- I wasn't very clear about my question-sorry about that. When I got the guitar I had Billy Cooper add the split- the compensator came later. I did try a wound string at some point and got the full drop by moving the stop. the problem was I couldn't get the split to do what it needed to do- I'd set it and the open string would be sharp. I eventually bailed on it and put the plain string back on. I didn't want to start moving rods in the bell crank,I probably would have messed it up completely. Anyway, hope this is clearer, thanks
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Part of my confusion is that I use the word compensator for a rod, for instance, from the A pedal to the 6th string, raising it slightly to compensate for cabinet drop. This is the rod that I was suggesting might no longer be necessary with the wound 6.

I really don't want to attempt to address the rest of your post here. Too much chance of getting way out of whack and giving bad info without having my hands on guitar.

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

Not a problem at all- I was doing a world class job of getting it out of whack WITH my hands on it! thanks again for your replies
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

I have heard they are easy to work on- I'm probably over cautious; I'll take notes and pics as I'm making changes- once I've done it the overall mechanics will probably make a lot more sense
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

As I have put a .022W 6th string on my Ultra, I know that it can handle it just fine. You will have to move the lower-rod to the bellcrank hole furthest from the shaft though, and maybe even adjust stop-screw for that lever a tiny bit further out for longer throw - depends on string brand.

I have used both Jagwire LG series, and LSS (all same gauges as the Jag LGs), on my Ultra with excellent results.

Body-drop detuning will be minimal with a wound 6th, so I don't think you'll need extra compensators (I don't). Only the raise-rod, lower-rod and a split-tuning rod.

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

Is your ultra keyless? I've heard you can drop notes with less adjustment than with a keyed headstock(which I have),or if it's not enough to matter
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

My Ultra is keyless, so you will probably have to adjust the stop-screw on the lower-lever a little for extra throw.

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

That shouldn't be a problem, I've got plenty of room on the stop screw; thanks a lot for your help
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Jeremy Threlfall · From: now in Western Australia

I have a similar question

I lower my 6th only a half tone (for the minor)

and I want to change it from a plain 20 to a wound 22

is it likely I will need to change the rodding on that bellcrank ?
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Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

As a .022W will stretch about twice the length for a raise or a lower compared to a .020P string, you most likely will have to move the rod one hole further out on the bellcrank even if you only lower the 6th string a half note.

Important: while we have only focused on the lowering of the wound 6th string so far, we must not forget the half-note raise of that string that must be balanced (somewhat) with the raise of the 3d string. That 6th string raise-rod therefore also has to be moved further out on its bellcrank when switching from plain to wound string.

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For completeness: I have the regular half-note raise on B-pedal, pluss full-note lower with half-note split for both 3d and 6th string together, on the lower-lever.
(Lowering of the 3d string along with the 6th seems to be highly unusual, but I've had it like that for almost 30 years on my old, trusty, Dekley, and like what I can do with that 3d/6th string change.)

To make that work flawlessly - both strings raise and lower sound in unison and land on same pitch - I put in not only the half-note split for the lower, but also a fine-tuning rod on the 3d string raise bellcrank that goes to the lower-scissor for that 3d string.
This fine-tuning rod only holds back the 3d string raise a few cents - prevents it from sharpening the "A" on 3d string compared with 6th string pitch with the B-pedal fully on, and may or may not be needed in a more regular and simpler set-up that doesn't lower the 3d string.

The above is how I balance out 3d and 6th string on my Dekleys, and it was just so much easier to get it all to work flawlessly on the GFI Ultra because of its much simpler "rods to bellcranks attachment" system.
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For the record: my 6th string is a .022W, and the 3d string is a .0115.

Jeremy Threlfall · From: now in Western Australia

Thanks (again) Georg. I raise and lower both my 3rd and 6th by a half tone each way.
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Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

What are the advantages of a wound .022 over plain .020?

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

John Brennan · From: Falls Church Va.

On my Ultra that 6th string one step drop is on rkl- it also raises string 1 one step and string 2 a half step; will backing off the nylon tuners be enough,or do you need to change it at the bellcrank?
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richard burton · From: Britain

It might be worth me mentioning, if only for information, how I did a simple modification to an all-pull steel many years ago, to get the changer to drop a wound 6th string a full tone.

The changer finger did not have enough travel to lower a full tone, but I realised that it had an abundance of travel in the raise direction, so I held the finger in a partially raised state by using a spring loaded device, and this was now the open note position.
Thus, I could still raise the note a half tone, and, by lowering the raise to its normal open position, and pulling the lower simultaneously, I could easily get a full tone lower.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

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