For now.......Practicing WITH picks.....Gigging WITHOUT them

Jim Fogarty · From: Phila, Pa, USA

I've been gigging professionally on the armpit axe for @ 25 years or so.....and much of that time I've spent playing with bare fingers or with just a thumbpick. I'm super comfortable playing that way.

Now, a few months into my PSG journey (after a good 6 months on the lap steel + picks), and I STILL can't play the blasted thing even 1/2 as well with fingerpicks as I can without them! It's frustrating. I've been very diligent and committed to getting used to them and it's getting better, but.....

At the gig on Saturday, I mostly played with picks. But, I decided to play steel on a guest's tune at the last second. So, I sat down, with my Les Paul still in my lap, threw on just the thumbpick and went. Damned if I didn't play far and away better on that tune than the entire rest of the night. My blocking, single-note playing and ability to selectively choose which string, without fumbling or accidentally hitting others, was exponentially better. Dynamics, too.

Part of me wonders, with modern amplification being so good and versatile, if there's any reason to beat myself up trying to use the picks? I would think getting enough volume and attack wouldn't be an issue. Honestly, having to use them is what put me off the Dobro, years ago. I'm not going to let that happen with the PSG.

But, I will soldier on for the time being, trying to make them work. At the gigs for a while, though, they're staying off until I get my act together.

So there!! Evil Twisted

- Jim

PS.....no idea why I felt the need to post that. Just venting to people who may (or may not!!) sympathize!! LOL!!

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

There are no rules regarding picks or no picks. I believe your fingers have decided for you. If you're more comfortable without them, and happy with how you sound...go for it. If I'm not mistaken, Bobbe Seymoure played with a thumb pick and no finger picks. You're in good company.
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Jim Fogarty · From: Phila, Pa, USA

Thanks. I think, between my fingerstyle guitar-ing and bass playing, my fingertips might be a wee bit more calloused than some people who try this, so there is that.

I just keep hearing and reading from some folks, "You HAVE to use picks.....just suck it up, cupcake!"!

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

There is a reason most psg players use picks; it sounds better. I'd suggest that you get Jeff Newman's course "Right Hand Alpha". The easy way is not always the best way.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

The bark, the attack. I CAN play barefingered, but it's taxing, because it adds a couple steps in the picking process. The meat of the very tips of the fingers have to dig in and "grab" the string and allow it to snap back.
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Jim Fogarty · From: Phila, Pa, USA

well, as I said, I'm not giving up on them totally......just kinda putting them on notice. Wink

John Goux · From: California, USA

In the 6 string world the most copied players use flesh. The list is impressive....Wes Montgomery, Stevie Ray Vaghan, Mark Knopfler, Derek Trucks, Duanne Allman, Jeff Beck, Joe Pass, etc.
With so many amplification and pickup options, there is no reason not pursue your own sonic path.
I've seen Daniel Lanois play PSG up close and he was not using any picks when I saw him.
Seems like you get a good tone with your fingers. I'd stick with it.
J

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

on the 6 stringers, Acoustics and Telecasters, I do not use picks, haven't for 30 or 40 years .On the Steel, yes, picks.

there are some drawbacks to NO PICKS which should be recognized. On the 6 stringers, natural playing volume is way down, tone is a bit more mellow, less bright. String life is shortened obviously from the constant contact of the right hand thumb and a couple of fingers. On the acoustics, playing a dreadnought with fingers is a war with regard to natural volume when you are playing with others who are using flat picks. For the Telecaster it's not quite as bad but your amp will be up a notch volume knob wise. Now with regard to tone, just the opposite for me. My entire style of playing 6 stringers is based on no picks . I change strings on the 6 stringers a lot , maybe every other week if I am gigging. without picks you will notice in a NY minute when the strings are going south, both tone and volume wise.

With Steel, it's picks all the way, there are too many passages that require a rapid positive attack/block on the strings which is quite a task without picks. Then the volume thing comes back, then the strings don't last thing comes back. There are many NO PICKS Steel players who can get it done, I'm not one of them ! Smile

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Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Go for it Brother. If it works for you don't fix it.
JB
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Steve Green · From: Gulfport, MS, USA

I guess it all depends on the type of sound you're after.

I haven't been playing steel long - only a few short years. But, when I got my first steel, I also got picks. Why? Because the professional players whose sound I aspired to emulate used them.

Buddy Emmons? picks
Jerry Byrd? picks
Lloyd Green? picks
Tom Brumley? picks
Paul Franklin? picks
Don Helms? picks
Roy Wiggins? picks

The list goes on and on. Sure, you may find a pro who doesn't always use them (Bobbe Seymour on occasion); but by and large, all the pros use picks. Granted, I've never been into the rock/alternative players (Brozman, Gilmour, Lindley), so I can't speak to what they use.

If I wanted to emulate Metallica's sound, I wouldn't play a Tele through a Twin.

If I wanted to emulate Chet Atkins' sound, I wouldn't play an Ibanez Destroyer through a Marshall stack with a "Turbo Death 2000" distortion pedal.

I think one reason pros use picks, is CONSISTENCY of attack, and a cleaner sound. I've tried playing Commando (sans picks), and found that often one note will be louder, or out-of-balance with the other notes in the phrase. Probably because finger nails (or finger meat) isn't as consistent as commercial metal picks. Picks seem to provide a more consistent clean attack.

Sure, you don't HAVE to use picks when playing steel (although the vast majority of folks do).

You also don't HAVE to use a fork when eating spaghetti (although the vast majority of folks do).

It's just cleaner.
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Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

Jim - While there is no law that says you must use picks, if you really want to, you MUST play with them all the time. Don't practice & then take them off for the gig. You have to put them on every time & use them till it's second nature. It takes work & getting used to. If you are going to use them, and IMHOP you should, there is no short cut.
Someone mentioned Bobbe Seymore not using them, well I'll betcha he could've used them if he wanted to.
When you sit down at the steel, just put them on automatically !
Cheers!
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Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

I also played guitar for a couple of decades finger picking using no picks.
After about 10 months with the lap steel I have settled on using a thumbpick and no fingerpicks.
A thumbpick was a bit hard to get used to but I finally got it down fairly well.
Fingerpicks........not a chance. However I have good nails and get a good clean sound from them.
I am not trying to sound like anyone but myself so it works out, although that may not be a good thing....... Confused

I was told by a much wiser person than I am that as long as music comes out you are doing it right.
I guess I make music. My dogs have finally stopped running out of the room when I begin to play.
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John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

I remember when I first started playing PSG in the 80s, I wore my metal fingerpicks several hours a day for a couple weeks just to get used to them. Now even when I switch to my Telecaster in a show I rarely take off the picks and I've developed kind of a Knoppler style with my Tele.
JB
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Frank Markow · From: Dallas, TX

Stephen Williams · From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA

I think you can play with your fingers and adjust the amp and/or where you play on the neck to get what you like. There is a crispness to using any pick. But think of it like an effect. Add to taste.

I struggled with picks on a "Stella" dobro but when i found the right ones it just made it sound better to me. So i use them on PSG. The most natural picks are some sort that are like a false white plastic finger that you stick yer finger in. They feel great but have no attack because no steel in there

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Bobbe Seymour without picks ..HUH ??

here he is in concert in 2009 with..uhh..picks !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLpHGQzxxc4

Bobbe was the real deal experimenter/professional, I have seen him many times playing with just a thumb pic but mostly with a thumb and two finger picks. But I do know he played sometimes with no picks, probably to show that he can or rather "WE" can.
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CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Jim Fogarty · From: Phila, Pa, USA

Thanks, kids.

As I said, I'm persevering. No plans to give up on them yet.

I appreciate all the comments. I gotta say it's funny though how many people seem to take stuff like this personally. I guess that's the mark of being passionate on the subject.....

......or something. Muttering

Jim Fogarty · From: Phila, Pa, USA

.....and just to prove the picks AIN'T GOIN' NOWHERE....... Laughing

(PS....I know this isn't Emmons-level stuff, but it's my all-time favorite steel intro, and I'm very excited I was just able to pick it out on my first try. Baby steps!)

https://youtu.be/Gk4B8L-7z10 Laughing

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Jim, it's not wrong or a bad thing one way or the other but practicing with picks and playing gigs without picks is not a good thing, consistency is the key. Practice and perform exactly the same way each time or it is possible that you will be spinning in mud for a very long time. Pick ONE method and go yee forward.

Your video is fine by the way , stay the course ! Smile

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Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Judson Adair · From: Oklahoma, USA

I am not a pro or anything but when I am playing I sometimes use them and sometimes don't depending on what I am playing. For country it definitely make a difference as far as playing clean and getting a nice tone. On the other hand when I play blues I have found I like the tone and feel I can get by putting my fingers directly on the strings. I practice both way so I can play both ways.

Jim Fogarty · From: Phila, Pa, USA

I dropped down from the Nationals I had been using to some slightly lighter, thinner Dunlops and that seems to have (at least briefly) helped allay the crisis of confidence I was having with the picks.

I still play MUCH better without them, though......which is frustrating. I suck enough, without adding another layer of suckage on top of it!! Mad

Dave Stroud · From: Texas

Some say it sounds better with picks.... I'd say it sounds more traditional with picks. If it sounds good, stick with it. Breaking the "rules" can bring creativity.

Les Cargill · From: Oklahoma City, Ok, USA

I am with you here, Jim. I can make it sound okay with picks, but it sounds "clunky" and there's too much "tchkk" at the leading edge of the notes. IMO, picks have too much leverage for my hand and I'm *still* learning how to deal with it.

While I've played quite a bit of six-string, my main instrument will probably always be bass, and I've evolved quite the right hand technique that way, and I lust lose that ( and mourn it ) with picks. My blocking is much, much ( perhaps too much ) better with fingers. That gap is very slowly closing.

With fingers, I can have a "horn ensemble" sound on the low strings that makes me very happy. This involves the same basic right hand technique for getting a "mwahh" sound on a fretless.

FWIW, I still EQ down the upper frequency ranges with fingers. The two sound different but not that different.

It's not emphasized enough in these threads, but the potential to damage your fingers and nails is much more pronounced without picks than with. So if you're planning on playing shows every day ( I only gig a few times a month ) picks are probably the way to go.

I "should" commit to the picks but....

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

>>> practice:seat time <<<

we probably all felt this way when we started with 3 foreign objects on our fingers...I know I did, sometimes still do...
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

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