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Topic: Emmons wraparound S10 pics added |
Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 5:08 pm |
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I recently had the good fortune to find an Emmons Wraparound S10. It's in some disrepair and I've taken it completely apart and will be refurbing it myself (possibly sending the cabinet out for some work). I know, I should send it to Mike Cass... But you know what? I love working on these guitars too. Mike would certainly do a better job than me, and it may end up in his hands eventually, but I can't afford it at the moment, and I want the satisfaction of doing at least some of the work myself. I'm curious how many S10s were made. Anybody know? Seems like there were fewer made than the D10s, but that's just a guess based on the fact I can't find a single picture of one... I know they're out there - this one came from the school in Canada that ordered a bunch in '65. (I actually talked to Ollie Strong who received the order here in Toronto). A prominent collector/authority here on the forum actually owns another from the same batch - his has been made new again by Cass... Anyway - how many are there? Anybody know?
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars.
Last edited by Abe Levy on 5 Jun 2016 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 7:45 pm
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I had one, #2137, that I sold to Chris L. back in 2007. Where he sent it, I don't know.
When I got it, it was because I walked into Scotty's consignment room on a Thursday night at an ISGC back in the 90's and saw a tan colored case. Being hip to wraparounds, I said "I want what comes in that case." It was a cool find.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
Last edited by Herb Steiner on 3 Jun 2016 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 3:30 pm
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Ok, Mr Lucker... If anyone knows, you do...
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 8:00 am
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I wish I had the tan case! Wish I had some normal length pedal rods too. Mine have been cut down by a couple inches. I'm planning on keeping the shorties so my son can learn on it. (Lucky kid) but I'd like to have the long ones so I can play it without extensions... Any body got three they want sell? They're the old kid with the cut notch instead of the bent hook...
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 6:31 am
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A couple have people have asked about my S10 and why I am refurbing, remica-ing etc. Thought some people might like to see some pics of the guitar before it gets redone... Someone attached giant steel L brackets to the top corners of the deck. In order to make them fit, they filed the two top corners down. So the mica is useless. At first I thought there was a new fretboard on it but then I realized that someone had put white tape over all the silver lines! Original fretboard! Thankfully all the important parts are in great shape - end plates, neck, changer, key head etc. They just need polishing. But lots of work underneath! Electronics are great - pickup is strong. This guitar sounds incredible. And look at that hand painted logo, huh!!?
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 6:58 am
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| Now that looks like fun Abe! |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 7:03 am
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Not many of those original name plate/logos remain. Surely you will preserve it.
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 7:28 am
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How are you going to repair the lost wood on the cabinet edges? The mica and the trim strips are going to have to attach to some solid surface, will they not?
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:21 am
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Jim - yes! Lots of fun! But a wraparound is worth it!
Herb - I'm having the corners planed and new maple added. Should be good as new once the mica is on. Now I just have to find the mica! Lucker seems to be able to find it through Formica company, but I've had no luck so far. The solid core stuff they make now is too thin. If anyone has some ill pay you for it!!
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:22 am
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Jon - yeah! I think I'll frame it.
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:27 am
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Here's a pic of Ollie Strong - he was the guy that received the order for the batch of S10s for the steel school here in Toronto. He told me the first thing he had the students do was to strip the guitars of all parts and put them back together - so they'd know how the things worked.
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:30 am
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Here's Ollie a couple of weeks ago at Eddy Fulawka's. They're good friends and Ollie is still a hell of a picker.
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:36 am
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Here's what my guitar looked like when I received it. The steel brackets are crazy heavy. I guess the kid at the school that got this guitar was a little over zealous when he put it back together! Nevertheless, it's probably the best sounding guitar I've ever played. I own three other Emmons, including two bolt ons. The string separation is incredible and the tone across all strings is incredible, all the way up the neck. Shimmering, sparkling tone to die for. Hopefully it will sound the same when all out back together!! The brackets are curved inside- I imagine that's why they filed the edges down. Sigh...
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:46 am
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A very cool find and project.
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RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 11:36 am
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Abe, you could not find the correct mica in gloss black?
It could be because you used the term "solid core" as you did above? That is meaningless in reference to Formica.
You are looking for Gloss Black series 10 Horizontal Grade Standard -- 909 10 HGS. It is in a thickness that varies between 0.043" to 0.053" although most of the stuff I have measures between 0.045" and 0.047". The Rosewood is thicker and the basketweave is much thicker, but the gloss colors remain in the range I stated, at least in my experience.
Abe, did you call just one Formica distributor? Or talk to just one salesperson?
I call all over the country when I am looking for Formica and even find stuff like Rosewood that was discontinued years ago. I surely have not bought it all.
Gloss black mica in Horizontal Grade is easy to find. Just don't confuse the salesperson by talking about solid core. Give them your measurement and your color and whether you want gloss or matte. You can even get 7813 which I think is the product number for "Cardboard" looking mica.
If you had sent the guitar to Mike Cass for a complete restoration, he would have used some of his stock of very old mica. He does not do al a carte mica jobs, though. I don't sell mica either. I buy mica, but I don't sell it.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 11:49 am
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The angle iron brackets have been added to minimise cabinet drop, in my opinion.
If the steel sounds excellent, leave it alone; it's the sound that matters, not the looks  |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 12:38 pm
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Chris - I didn't use the term solid core when I contacted them. I spoke with Formica I ordered as close to what you have described many times here on the forum. They directed me to a nearby retail outlet that carried it. Upon arrival, I discovered that it was very thin mica laminated on to cardboard backing. The kind that is black all the way through is actually called Color core but the only kind they currently make is about half the thickness that was on the guitar. I called it solid core here to be more obvious about what it actually is. It is possible that this guitar has been remica-d before as the salesman there said the sample I brought was not Formica. The stuff on the guitar is nearly 1/16" thick. I've called maybe twenty carriers and they've all told me the same thing. However it is very possible I am still asking incorrectly!
As for Mike Cass - I spoke with him regarding a complete resto - but I really enjoy doing it myself. I asked him to remica the guitar and did not hear back. I guess that is a no. No problem, his call. I'll find what I need eventually. Thanks to you and others here on the forum, all the info needed to restore an old guitar is available, even if all the parts aren't.
Thanks for all your info and guidance! It is truly appreciated!
Abe
PS if anybody will part with a couple feet of this highly desirable mica - let me know, it will help in putting an old girl back on her feet.
As for leaving the angle irons on, yes they probably were trying to minimize cab drop, but they each weigh a ton. All of my guitars have a bit of drop. Never bothered me. But the look and weight of those brackets sure did!!
_________________
Mostly Pre-1970 guitars.
Last edited by Abe Levy on 5 Jun 2016 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 1:08 pm
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Mike Cass did an a'la carte mica job on my 78 P/P about 5 years ago. While not cheap, it was reasonable & he did a stellar job. It turned out better than OEM and was worth every penny. The guitar had a noticeable increase in sustain afterwards. Also, he was very generous w/ tips & advice while I was doing the rest of the restoration.
One idea that comes to mind. If you can't find the correct mica, what about covering the cabinet with hardwood, figured veneer and shooting a lacquer finish?( I have no experience with doing that......just sayin').
Last edited by Tony Glassman on 6 Jun 2016 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 8:51 pm
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Abe, I have some gloss black that is .047 thick if you can use that. I believe the original mica was a little thicker but I'm not sure of that.
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 3:34 am
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The horizontal grade varies in thickness. The data sheet at Formica Chiefs states that 909 Horizontal grade is in the 0.043 to 0.053 range. They did not make mica in 0.0625, or 1/16th except the basket weave and some other textured patterns. Rosewood is in the low fifties in my experience.
You can't have mica 1/16th thick or it will stick out from the inlay on the aprons.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 5:44 am
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Chris, do you think the .047 that I have would be suitable for Abe's guitar? I could it to him with some other parts I am furnishing him with. The apron aluminum trim strips seem to be the hardest to come up with. If necessary I guess we could make it from some aluminum angle from Lowe's. That is what Paul Franklin Sr. once told me to do.
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 10:04 am
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Jerry, that is in the thickness range of the 909 10 HGS 0.043" to 0.053".
Abe, do you have the correct inlay?
I had some, the stuff from Crawford that Seymour was cutting when he had his accident, but I sent it all to Mike Cass.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 10:54 am
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I can't thank you guys enough! So much help here. I think I've found the mica here in Toronto (I'm spending a year here, then back to California). I have a guy making me exact replicas of the trim strips - I found a fantastic wood/metalworker who is also fixing the cabinet for me. He's cutting and fitting the mica too. So looks like I'll have a good cabinet soon. I really can't thank you guys enough for being so awesome and knowledgeable! I'll keep you posted on the progress. Hopefully I'll be putting the guitar back together over the next couple weeks...
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 5:41 pm
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I almost bought that guitar in North Bay Ontario!
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 5:54 pm
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