| Author |
Topic: Why a D10 |
Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 21 May 2016 12:03 pm |
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
Lloyd also tells elsewhere that the first session call he got after Shot removed the C6 neck was for a Western Swing album with Danny Davis and the Nashville Brass!!  |
C'mon Herb, finish the story. Lloyd said he played 6th style on E9 and made it through the session and nobody was the wiser ....but,he is after all Lloyd Green ....but,seriously folks, I like a double body because I find it more comfortable to physically play and I believe it helps with palm blocking. As long as I'm going to play a double body, I might as well have two tunings to chose from.
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2016 12:29 pm
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If you read my last post I mentioned the Davis western swing session from the article on Lloyd and Herb added the part in his post about the Nashville Brass. And as Lloyd was quoted in my earlier post about being able to play anything on E9th, along with the hard work he put in as a young man developing his chops, he was truly an example of a steel guitar child prodigy. The lap steel course he was enrolled in at age 7 was normally open to pupils with a minimum age of 14. They made an exception for Lloyd. This was getting close to Mozart material but on a steel guitar.
In my on again/off again struggles with the pedal steel guitar over the years it has taken everything in my power just to try to get beyond sucking on E9th - that is - when I've actually rolled up my sleeves and put in the woodshed time.
So for me it's a matter of priorities. I'm also busy with lap steel, dobro, standard guitar and vocals. So I made a decision some years ago that any energy I put into pedal steel is to be devoted to E9th, which would be the most useful tuning for me. I don't really have the luxury of "I'd like to play C6th - just in case." Not to mention, I'm still a workin' stiff at my day job with no real clear path to retirement at this time.
It would be different if I put on a set of blinders and headed out to the woodshed and left all the other music stuff behind. Then perhaps trading/selling my S-10 for a D-10 might be something to consider. But I think of the pedal steel as being a "jealous mistress." It seems to me that to do it right to where I even have a shot of working on C6th along with E9th particularly at an "advanced age" for trying to become competent on the instrument, all the other toys need to be relegated to their cases for a longish period of time - or even sold to get them out of the house and resist temptation.
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Mark |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 21 May 2016 12:34 pm
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After hearing Carl Smith's "20th Year Anniversary" Album w/ Chalker & Big Jim Murphy, I had to have a C-neck ......Now, I can't live without a D-10!
I would prefer to haul around a single neck guitar, but when using an S-10, I always wind up missing the C6th neck. Also, gave the S-12U tuning a whirl, but just never warmed up to it.
I try and play 30-40% of the time on the back neck. I sometimes even switch necks in the same song. |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 21 May 2016 1:52 pm Anybody play lap steel first ?
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Am I the only one who played lap steel first ? Starting to get comfortable on A6 and E13 first, made the transition to C6 more familiar than E9.
It seemed to fit better with the rockabilly and retro swing stuff at the time.
I later saw the light , and worshipped the Jimmy Day and Lloyd stuff.
I guess in looking back, I was lucky to start out on the 6th tuning. |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 May 2016 3:01 pm
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| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
| Herb Steiner wrote: |
| Lloyd also tells elsewhere that the first session call he got after Shot removed the C6 neck was for a Western Swing album with Danny Davis and the Nashville Brass!! |
C'mon Herb, finish the story. Lloyd said he played 6th style on E9 and made it through the session and nobody was the wiser ....but,he is after all Lloyd Green ....but,seriously folks, I like a double body because I find it more comfortable to physically play and I believe it helps with palm blocking. As long as I'm going to play a double body, I might as well have two tunings to chose from. |
I agree. A double body is WAY more comfortable for me to play. A single neck is too light and just does not have the mass required for the tone of a double body. it also tends to move around when you are like "a bull in a china closet" like I am. If I'm going to haul a Double body, it will have two necks. There are so many tunes that just fit better on the 6th tuning. Not to mention it is a lot of fun to play!
One of my favorite players in the world can get just about every chord in Nightlife with an E-9th tuning and some knee levers. He comes closer than anyone I have heard to pulling it off. The chords are right, but the voicing isn't the same. He can play it on the 6th neck, and play it as well as anyone.
These days he has been playing a SD-10. To him the extra weight of the 6th neck isn't worth the few times a night he'd use it.
At the end of the night we are probably the only ones who care, but that is a big reason I will play a double neck as long as I'm able to.
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 May 2016 3:29 pm
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| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
| ....but,he is after all Lloyd Green.. |
| Quote: |
| (from a discussion of Jerry Garcia on Harmony Central; "If this guy Lloyd Green is so great, how come CSNY didn't use him instead of Jerry?" |
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2016 4:14 pm
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Hey Mike, how many years has it been since now you first encountered that Garcia/Pedal Steel/Harmony Central discussion?
You really gotta let that one go - it's not good for your health.
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Mark |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 21 May 2016 4:29 pm
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I went from an S10 to a U12 to stick a toe into B6.
Now, I use B6 for about a third to a half of the songs that use steel. Unless the song has explicitly E9 signature stuff on it, I'll try B6 first.
I think pulling stuff that's not natively swing in the swing direction - tastefully - improves the perceived value of the band. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 May 2016 6:12 pm
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Lotta times, seems like people here are like a bunch of old porch monkeys. They worry about what other people do, they worry about what other people play, and they worry about what other people use. I say, play what you got, and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing.  |
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Lee Dassow
From:
Jefferson, Georgia USA
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Posted 21 May 2016 6:35 pm
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I like having the C6th neck, and in case I'm playing with the boys and I pop a string, especially no.5. I'd be dead on E9th without the 5th string, but I can fake my way through the rest of the song on the back neck. Tenn.Lee
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars,
Last edited by Lee Dassow on 22 May 2016 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 May 2016 11:00 pm
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On the contrary Mark, every time I think about it I laugh, and as we know, laughter good for you.
Getting back to the subject, I play a U-12 because I found my green MSA 12 string classic just as I was starting to play, and it was within my budget.
I left it as a uni instead of an extended E9 because I figured I'd get into the B6, but I never really did. I played for more years than I care to think about in country bands where I never needed to use the B6. Then, when I became interested in playing classical music, I found that the E9 tuning (with the extra bass from the added strings,) is as appropriate for that kind of music as it is for country.
I have never encountered anything in any of the classical pieces I've attempted to play, that cannot be played on E9.
The late Al Vescovo, who played a single neck 14 string C6 once teased me about playing "the hillbilly tuning." I answered that the E9 is "the Mozart tuning."
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 22 May 2016 2:58 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Al Vescovo .... played a single neck 14 string C6 |
That must have been quite a beast. Any idea how it was tuned?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 22 May 2016 9:27 am
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| Justin Griffith wrote: |
| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
| Herb Steiner wrote: |
| Lloyd also tells elsewhere that the first session call he got after Shot removed the C6 neck was for a Western Swing album with Danny Davis and the Nashville Brass!! |
C'mon Herb, finish the story. Lloyd said he played 6th style on E9 and made it through the session and nobody was the wiser ....but,he is after all Lloyd Green ....but,seriously folks, I like a double body because I find it more comfortable to physically play and I believe it helps with palm blocking. As long as I'm going to play a double body, I might as well have two tunings to chose from. |
I agree. A double body is WAY more comfortable for me to play. A single neck is too light and just does not have the mass required for the tone of a double body. it also tends to move around when you are like "a bull in a china closet" like I am. If I'm going to haul a Double body, it will have two necks. There are so many tunes that just fit better on the 6th tuning. Not to mention it is a lot of fun to play!
One of my favorite players in the world can get just about every chord in Nightlife with an E-9th tuning and some knee levers. He comes closer than anyone I have heard to pulling it off. The chords are right, but the voicing isn't the same. He can play it on the 6th neck, and play it as well as anyone.
These days he has been playing a SD-10. To him the extra weight of the 6th neck isn't worth the few times a night he'd use it.
At the end of the night we are probably the only ones who care, but that is a big reason I will play a double neck as long as I'm able to. |
I'd prefer to have an SD-12 Newman Universal....its just not in my budget right now unless I find a D-12 on the cheap that needs a refurb....if anyone would like to donate such a guitar,please contact me !
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 May 2016 9:30 am
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| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
I'd prefer to have an SD-12 Newman Universal....its just not in my budget right now unless I find a D-12 on the cheap that needs a refurb....if anyone would like to donate such a guitar,please contact me ! |
If you had a D-12 with a universal on one neck, what would you put on the other?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 22 May 2016 9:56 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
If you had a D-12 with a universal on one neck, what would you put on the other? |
Easy answer, Mike: Newman's E9/B6 on the front 12, and Reece's Bb6 Universal on the back 12.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 22 May 2016 11:14 am
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
If you had a D-12 with a universal on one neck, what would you put on the other? |
Easy answer, Mike: Newman's E9/B6 on the front 12, and Reece's Bb6 Universal on the back 12. |
Hmm. A U/U? |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 May 2016 11:17 am
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Does anybody have a copy of Al Petty's 21 pedal D-12 tuning, with an E9/B6 on one neck and a third tuning he invented on the other?
I used to have one, but I can't find it.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 22 May 2016 11:41 am
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
If you had a D-12 with a universal on one neck, what would you put on the other? |
Easy answer, Mike: Newman's E9/B6 on the front 12, and Reece's Bb6 Universal on the back 12. |
Nope, I want a SD-12 universal. How redundant, right ? So I want a pad on the back neck. Reese said to try to float through both tuning as if it were one big tuning. The thought intrigues me,but,as stated above, I personally don't prefer a single body guitar. I have been entertaining the thought lately of buying an MSA D-12 and turning it into a Uni. It'd be a guitar I'd never be able to sell. Who besides me would buy an SD-12 universal ?
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 22 May 2016 12:41 pm
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Dustin, I'm with you. I'm slowly working on mine
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 May 2016 12:53 pm
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MSA and Fessenden both make SD-12s. Surely some other builders must also.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
Last edited by Mike Perlowin on 22 May 2016 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 22 May 2016 12:56 pm
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I used to have quite a bit more in the kitty,but I used it for the ultimate steel guitar speaker cab...otherwise I would have approached Billy Phelps on the D-12 boat anchor that someone traded to him. He said it was in bad need of a rebuild, but I don't think I have what he'd need to be "whole".....so the savings and the pining go on....
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 22 May 2016 12:58 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| MSA and Fessenden both make SD-12s. Surely some other builders must also. |
Mike, they are close to five grand. Worth every penny,but way out of my price range.
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 23 May 2016 6:53 am
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I've always owned D-10's, even before I could play C6th and I think it was probably for the cool factor. If I didn't play C6th now, I surely would not carry around the extra weight of a D-10 and I would never play a 12 string because don't care about cool factor anymore. Only a handful of 12 string players ever turned me on and 12 stringers aren't as noted say as D-10 players.
Years ago when I first started playing, I detested the C6th neck playing of the guys around here and it was simply because I didn't understand the C6th sound. Now, I probably play 30% of stuff we do on C6th and can't imagine not using it. To sum it all up, nothing looks any cooler on stage than a beautiful D-10 with knee levers dripping all out from under it, that is, if you care.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Ed Boyd
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 23 May 2016 8:46 am
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I started with C6 lap. So I thought I should have a C6 neck and I like the deep sound. I wish I could find more teaching material on the 10 string C6.
I like the weight. It is a solid platform. It don't move or rock or sway. It don't go anywhere when you play it..... I also don't gig with it either.
If I did gig I think I would like to find a S10 with some heft. Maybe a MSA Classic. On one of my DVDs the teacher is playing a S10 and you can see the guitar shake when he demostrated vibrato.
Last edited by Ed Boyd on 23 May 2016 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 23 May 2016 9:48 am
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| Jody Cameron, Heart Of A Clown, E9 ---> Click Here |
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