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Topic: Hawaiian vibrato help? |
Miles Lang
From:
Venturaloha
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 9:49 am |
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Can anyone point me to some online exercises or tutorials to develop Hawaiian style vibrato? I don't want to be accused of being a country player!  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 9:54 am
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| What do you mean "Hawaiian style vibrato"? |
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Miles Lang
From:
Venturaloha
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 10:05 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| What do you mean "Hawaiian style vibrato"? |
I was listening to Troy interview Alan Akaka and they were talking about how the vibrato makes it sound Hawaiian rather than Western swing/country. I can't necessarily hear it so I was looking for some instruction. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 11:01 am
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To get the Hawaiian vibrato, you need to wear a Hawaiian shirt and a grass skirt and be chewing on a pineapple!  |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 11:29 am
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Or suffer from Parkinson's Disease
JK. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Mikiya Matsuda
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 3:49 pm
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While this doesn’t directly answer your question about Hawaiian vibrato, David Finckel’s “Cello Talks†are an amazing free resource that could help you find the answer. His lessons on vibrato are by far the best I’ve come across and are applicable to any style of music.
Link to the lessons on vibrato (scroll to the bottom and work your way up) http://cellotalks.com/tagged/vibrato
Complete list of videos (all worthwhile): http://cellotalks.com/list
I used Finckel’s approach to analyze players like Billy Hew Len, Jules Ah See, David Keli’i, and Dick McIntire. I found that there was a range in the rate, depth, and consistency of their vibrato. I’m no expert, but the variation was significant enough that I’m not sure I could identify a single Hawaiian style.
When I compared them to the early generation of western steel players like Joaquin, Noel, Herb, Speedy, or Jimmy Day as well as swing musicians like Lester Young, Johnny Hodges, and Ella Fitzgerald, I noticed enough similarities that I started to rethink some of my assumptions about the differences between Hawaiian, country, western, or jazz vibrato. Maybe the differences are just better explained by time period than by place or genre?
In any case, I’m fascinated by this topic and feel like I’ve only scratched the surface. When I’ve noticed any small improvement in my own vibrato, it’s come only after nerding out and analyzing my favorite players and then recording myself and (usually) cringing as I listen back.
_________________
www.mikiyamatsuda.com
www.alcatrazislanders.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 4:13 pm
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Great post, Mikiya.
I'm big on vibrato, but I consciously avoid using it at times and vary the depth and rate to where I need them to be. There are some musicians who are almost robotic with it. It can have its charm but it can turn me off, too.
All in all you have to make a conscious effort to use your vibrato (or not use it) and it shouldn't be an after-thought.
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Miles Lang
From:
Venturaloha
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 4:18 pm
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| Mikiya Matsuda wrote: |
While this doesn’t directly answer your question about Hawaiian vibrato, David Finckel’s “Cello Talks†are an amazing free resource that could help you find the answer. His lessons on vibrato are by far the best I’ve come across and are applicable to any style of music.
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Mikiya, I've actually studied classical cello, and I recall the vibrato exercises my teacher had me do. She made me practice vibrato with a metromome - whole note, half note, quarter, etc. vibrato. The slower vibratos are really hard |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 5:47 pm
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Here's a beautiful performance that I think is very instructive.
This is my friend, steel guitarist John Ely playing a masterful C6th rendition of the standard, You Go to My Head. Notice his impeccable intonation on held notes with barely any vibrato. When he does apply vibrato, it really makes an expressive difference. On Some Jerry Byrd performances he used a near-constant vibrato. John's approach is closer in conception to great horn players who came up in the 50s and 60s where vibrato is used more sparingly then the swing era players.
One example is the vibrato John uses on the intro chords ... lovely, shimmering. Yet on the held note at :28 secs, there's no vibrato at all yet the note is perfectly intoned.
https://soundcloud.com/aev/you-go-to-my-head-2
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 8:02 am
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There is another vibrato subject that hasn't been discussed; some steelers roll their bar and some slide it along the strings.
What say you? |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 8:13 am
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I drop the bar.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Steffen Gunter
From:
Munich, Germany
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 8:17 am
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Interesting! Thank you, Andy, for the John Ely link. This was great!
To me it feels like a strong, almost constant vibrato sounds quite (vintage) Hawaiian. The almost no vibrato sounds jazzier (as long as intonation is as perfect as John Ely's). The (for me) too wide vibrato of e.g. the '56 Sleep Walk recording of Santo Farina sounds, ah, different (don't wanna struggle with the Santo & Johnny Fans). Jerry Byrd's late vibrato ist very elegant, constant and Hawaiian, but it almost disappears behind his sliding in and out and VP magic.
In the end I believe vibrato is just a very personal thing depending on taste, skills and talent.
_________________
My YT channel: www.youtube.com/user/madsteffen |
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Gary Meixner
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 9:26 am
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Andy,
Thank you for posting the link to John Ely playing, "You Go To My Head". That is a masterful performance. I am just knocked out.
I met John a number of years ago when I was on business trip in MN. He is such a nice and generous person. I took a long lesson from him and every bit of it has stuck with me since.
I wish I could study with him regularly but my computer connection is terrible so Skype is out.
Gary Meixner |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 9:50 am
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John is indeed a great guy and kind of under the radar for a player of his level of mastery. I took lessons by mail from John in the early 90s and we've remained friendly since. His way of presenting steel guitar info formed the basis for some of my thinking in my "Exploring C6th" book.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 10:40 am
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What about that other essential Hawaiian move, pinging harmonics (Chimes some call them) between every phrase.....and missing 50% of them.
JK. |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 12:35 pm
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This is a great topic, thanks for the video links Mikiya, I watched them all and really like the approach of analyzing by slowing recordings down, somebody has to tell David Finckel that there are programs that are able to slow down phrases without altering the pitch, like Ableton Live for example, should make the job even easier. I have the feeling that the way you slide (or not) from note to note and the vibrato are the main variables of playing and beeing expressive with a steel guitar. And of course rhythm and dynamics, but this is not very steel guitar specific.
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https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 11:13 am
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I have worked a lot with Alan Akaka on sounding Hawaiian (still working on it!). As used in jazz (listen to Ella Fitzgerald, e.g.), the vibrato is not applied at once, but after playing the notes "straight (aka "dead on") and then applying vibrato a little at a time, increasing it as the chord goes on. It helps if you get your intonation correct - Alan got me playing with my eyes closed to lose my dependence on sight.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 12:09 pm
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I can definitely hear the increasing vibrato, especially with singers, but there is also what I call instant vibrato, you can hear that kind quite often listening to Dick McIntire, also there is not always the time to increase the vibrato, if you want vibrato on a certain note in fast tempo you better apply it instantly or the note is gone : )
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 2:55 pm
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Everyone I know ... Knows I'm a vibrato junky ...
Besides the links I posted above ... I don't know of any living steel player that's more apt at a true Hawaiian vibrato than Jeff Au Hoy ...
I was there in 2004 when Jeff was a young-ling in Joliet ... Then was at the 2014 Ft. Collins show ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fv4XrNr9AnI
When he came up to my room to try out my Combo ... I was in vibrato heaven ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1FWxs2lAUps&feature=youtu.be
Jeff is the living "Master" of Hawaiian Steel Guitar ... Vibrato, phrasing and anything else considered Hawaiian ... In my opinion
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 6:50 pm
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Nice revisiting your vibrato posts/sonograms again, Rick. It changed the way I think about something I took for granted. I think Jerry Byrd said that it was unique to each individual...like a voice.
Interesting how the vibrato of the Hawaiian players slowed down with the introduction of the electric, even very early on. Sometimes it was about as slow as it ever got.
I've Gone Native Now (Solo starts at 0.50 mark).
Your Dick McIntire example is amazingly even. I feel like I could identify him and Byrd, or Iona for that matter, with one note and vibrato.
It seems like the rate and range of vibrato in popular instrumentation followed the vocal stylings of the day. Sydney Bichet's warble was insane!
Anyway, thought your sample sounded pretty darn good. Harkens back to the '30s style.
Agreed about Jeff! He is a combination of all the best, of which I know he has spent countless hours listening to, and it really shows. |
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Mikiya Matsuda
From:
San Francisco, California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 10:02 pm
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Rick, what kind of sonogram program did you use for all that mad scientist vibrato analysis? I need to learn how to do this for myself!
Andy/Rick, those clips of John and Jeff make me want to run to the practice room. These guys are Jedi Knights of the steel guitar.
_________________
www.mikiyamatsuda.com
www.alcatrazislanders.com |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 4:18 am
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I had Sound Forge with a Spectrum Analysis plug-in ... did that stuff around Christmas time one year ( as you can tell ) .. 
Andy V. sent me that Sidney B. clip ...  |
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