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Topic: Why crappy bands want steel and good ones don't |
Duane Reese
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Posted 12 Apr 2016 8:39 pm |
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This may be kind of a bygone issue for me, but just reading some posts on here, I feel like making this observation. I figured this out a long time ago in Texas, et al...
It seems that there are generally two kinds of country bands, major acts notwithstanding: those who want a steel, because they suck, and consequently expect that a steel is going to make up for that; and those who are really good, either on the circuit or on their way, and don't want to have to pay another guy for something they realize that they only need in the studio.
There, I said it.
Now before everyone gets their hackles up, I know that many will point to exceptions, and there are some really good bands out there with steel players in regional circuits. The only reason I'm saying this is because I know that there are a lot of players out there who know exactly what I'm talking about with this. 10 or 15 years ago, I would have thought that getting a steel gig would be easy, but it's surprisingly easier to get a bass gig, or probably even a guitar gig if you're good. It's not some big conspiracy against country music, but economics, more than anything else.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about? |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Duane Reese
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Posted 12 Apr 2016 9:24 pm
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Right. I mean hey, no steel player is owed a steel gig — that's just life. Still, it's a ugly truth of the instrument...
It's a given that if you want to play with a really good band, you have to be a really good steel player. Not only that, but you have to be able to play out on the road and live that kind of life (as in, no day job). For everyone who doesn't meet those two requirements, it seems you often have only two choices: you either just play it at home by yourself, or play with people whose desire for a steel player comes from their own lack of talent and/or experience — particularly country experience.
Again, I know that there are a bunch of exceptions, but I still feel that my point is worth making. Even in places where the steel scene is relatively hot, you may end up playing more of something else. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 1:29 am
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
It's a given that if you want to play with a really good band, you have to be a really good steel player. |
Uhmmm...is it possible that this is part of the problem with Steels in general ? You don't even have to be REAL good but pretty good is becoming mandatory , especially locally.
I touched on this in another thread and I believe this is indeed part of the problem we have, part of the big picture.
Many years back, anyone with a Steel could get a gig. Today, you had better be able to cut the mustard , bands are not as forgiving, the music is not as forgiving. And I am not talking about todays country music, I am talking about playing yesterdays country music..today.
"Kick off The Bottle Let Me down" ... huh...?
"Oh , I just stay in the background"....
"NOT"
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 5:12 am
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| I think economics is a big factor. I recently was eased out of a lot of gigs because the others wanted more money. They wanted to play more pop and rock music as a three piece. I will still work with them but it's only when the the gig needs to be more country. I have played a lot of pop and rock music and can get through a gig like that without problems, but the main issue is splitting the money. By "eased out" I mean that they came up with another name for the "new" three piece band, and my phone stopped ringing. so, I'm not out of the band, I'm just not in the "new" band. |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 8:07 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Many years back, anyone with a Steel could get a gig. Today, you had better be able to cut the mustard , bands are not as forgiving, the music is not as forgiving. And I am not talking about todays country music, I am talking about playing yesterdays country music..today. |
Yes, and the obvious reason for that is because any band (wanting a full-time steel) that is good enough to play unforgiving classic country music like that is a full-time professional band and/or rare enough that they have their pick of the best — not to mention that audiences for those upper-crust gigs expect some "wow"-factor in that niche.
If you want to be in that leauge of band, you better be that league of steel player. Players like that pretty much never miss a lick. They play in perfect tune, can play fast fast fast, and do it all night long — you know, professional. Again though, that's only half the requirement — you've also got to be willing to do it for a living, because bands like that don't stay withing a 50 or 100 mile radius. Plenty of bands generally do that kind of thing, but again, most don't want to add a steel player because, even if their record has steel on it, because it's one more guy to pay, and the audiences in the general audience outside of the classic country niche...well, they just don't care enough to make it worth it (as in, usually not at all).
So you might be a very good steel player, and there are plenty of country bands around with players that do have day jobs, but it's almost a pipe dream to find one that doesn't...well, suck. By that, I mean everything — people who are not even on a skill level of being good enough to play out, or are recent pop/rock converts who don't understand country and don't want to do any good steel songs or leave you any space to play — they want you there, for the cred, but they don't even know how to use you properly. I know this will sound conceited to anyone reading this who isn't a steel player, but it's very common for a steel player in a bush league band to be the most talented member of that band, and often be able to play some of the other instruments in the band better than the people assigned to those instruments can. Why is the steel player even there? Because it was the only gig he could find.
edited: see below
That seems to be why so many good steelers languish in the wood shed. 
Last edited by Duane Reese on 13 Apr 2016 11:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 8:41 am
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Personally, Ive about lost my voice not to mention my ears, trying to get damn near EVERY band I get to play with to TURN THE HELL DOWN...I have been assaulted by volume long enough...Just last week, complaining that ALL I COULD HEAR WAS GUITAR, and the drummer with one volume...BANG BANG BANG....
PA systems are for projection, volume is for allowing the subtle nuances of actual MUSIC to be felt, heard and enjoyed..Its ALL about emotion isnt it?...The remedy BTW was the singer saying..."If you cant hear yourself, TURN UP".....and so I did...TO TEN...I BLEW THE WALLS DOWN.....nobody in the band even flinched.....(AFTER I PUT IN MY EAR PLUGS OF COURSE)...I have sent several bands to listen to the Time Jumpers....WHY THE HELL CANT THIS BAND OBSERVE THIS TYPE OF DISCIPLINE, and LEARN from it?...They dont know any better...AND...What the HELL happened to TALENT?????
_________________
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 8:51 am
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| Quote: |
Yes, and the obvious reason for that is because any band (wanting a full-time steel) that is good enough to play unforgiving classic country music like that is a full-time professional band and/or rare enough that they have their pick of the best — not to mention that audiences for those upper-crust gigs expect some "wow"-factor in that niche. |
I remember the rare occasion when I got to see a real good Country band. J.P. Harris and ... (can't remember their full name) it wasn't exactly an upper-crust gig, but they were totally convincing with their Bakersfield Sound. Forum member Asa Brosus could play those fast flowing licks in mid and uptempo songs. He told me they were touring for quite some time all over Europe. A few weeks later he was looking for a practice board here. Seemed funny to me.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 9:42 am
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
| Maybe I should have put it this way... There are three kinds of bands wanting steel players: major acts (whether they need them or not), mid-level regional pro acts who don't need them, and total hacks who are basically karaoke-level. |
So, you're saying there is nothing between "mid-level regional pro acts" and "total hacks who are basically karoake-level", wanting steel guitarists?
That's pretty insulting to a lot of musicians.
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 9:51 am
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Call me slow or clueless but I don't understand the gist or point of this entire topic. 
Last edited by Jerry Overstreet on 13 Apr 2016 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 10:45 am
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Simple answer is crappy bands play now and then for mostly the love of it and don't care how much they make each.It's all about getting out and picking.
Good bands are typically better players who are trying to make a living at it where they are attempting to save every buck they can and steel is usually the odd man out.
They usually have 5 pickers with the fifth being either piano or another guitarist who sings.
I've talked to many bands who say,we love the steel but can't afford it.
_________________
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.
Last edited by Dick Wood on 13 Apr 2016 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 11:34 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
| Duane Reese wrote: |
| Maybe I should have put it this way... There are three kinds of bands wanting steel players: major acts (whether they need them or not), mid-level regional pro acts who don't need them, and total hacks who are basically karaoke-level. |
So, you're saying there is nothing between "mid-level regional pro acts" and "total hacks who are basically karoake-level", wanting steel guitarists?
That's pretty insulting to a lot of musicians.
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For one thing, I need to go back and edit that because I screwed up the middle part (forgot what I was even saying mid-type.
There are basically four kinds of bands wanting a steel player (as most pro-quality, mid-level regional acts don't want steel for the aforementioned reasons):
- major acts (whether they need them or not)
- pro-quality classic country niche acts
- pro or decent quality non-country/avant-garde acts
- and total hacks who are basically karaoke-level.
And yes, Lee, it is insulting to a lot of musicians in bush-league bands, but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. A lot of those people — call them "total hacks" or whatever — are just not ready to even play out. I for one have had to spend entirely too much time trying to help bass players limp through standards, which seems absurd. Overall, I have ended up playing a lot more bass on stage than steel, only because bass players good enough to not embarrass everyone are apparently harder to come by than steel players (in the country scene). |
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Joseph Napolitano
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 12:27 pm
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| I'm with Jerry and Lee. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 1:17 pm
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| Dick Wood wrote: |
Good bands are typically better players who are trying to make a living at it where they are attempting to save every buck they can and steel is usually the odd man out.
They usually have 5 pickers with the fifth being either piano or another guitarist who sings.
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Well maybe, not sure I agree totally with that. I've run across some pretty dang hot players who are NOT trying to make a living at it but do play locally. Good players are around they may just not be making the rounds.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 1:59 pm
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| Mickey Adams wrote: |
Personally, Ive about lost my voice not to mention my ears, trying to get damn near EVERY band I get to play with to TURN THE HELL DOWN...I have been assaulted by volume long enough...Just last week, complaining that ALL I COULD HEAR WAS GUITAR, and the drummer with one volume...BANG BANG BANG....
PA systems are for projection, volume is for allowing the subtle nuances of actual MUSIC to be felt, heard and enjoyed..Its ALL about emotion isnt it?...The remedy BTW was the singer saying..."If you cant hear yourself, TURN UP".....and so I did...TO TEN...I BLEW THE WALLS DOWN.....nobody in the band even flinched.....(AFTER I PUT IN MY EAR PLUGS OF COURSE)...I have sent several bands to listen to the Time Jumpers....WHY THE HELL CANT THIS BAND OBSERVE THIS TYPE OF DISCIPLINE, and LEARN from it?...They dont know any better...AND...What the HELL happened to TALENT????? |
I played in punk bands starting out on guitar. I had a small 2 x 10 Marshall Valve State (all I could afford) and my friend had a 4 x 12 Sunn cabinet. I couldn't hear myself and asked if he could turn down.
He just looked at me and goes 'turn down? I'm the temple of rock n roll.'
I had to save my money and buy a bigger amp. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 9:24 pm
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The problem is that with today's economy, you can only afford what you need. You NEED a bass, guitar,drums & vocals, but you don't NEED a steel, so the steel is the first thing to go. Around my area most of the bands play traditional country, & most of them are not very good. The few that play "bro" or new country are usually very good, because "new" country has to be rehearsed, old country doesn't, as everyone knows the "standards". But, most steel players, myself included,shy away from the "bro" country bands. I have been approached by several new country bands to play & I turn them down; playing that music would be tantamount to WORK, & I'd rather pump gas at the local convenience store on weekends than play new country.
I am fortunate enough to play with what I feel is the absolute BEST traditional country & 60s band in my part of Florida,they are "national level" good, but trust me...most of 'em ain't like this!
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 14 Apr 2016 7:29 am
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A major factor in this is probably the fact that bands that aren't very talented are also bands that are very inexperienced - you know, the kind of people who start out thinking that they have to go up on stage and sound exactly like a record. Those are the kind of bands that probably most actively seek out things like steel players, and other instruments that are economically dead weight - I hate to put it that way, but in most cases, it's the truth - let's just look at it in the cold light of day here.
Again, if you're talking about a gig where people want to come out and hear and authentic country sound, and have all the ingredients of real classic or Old Time Country Music, then you're talking about people who are going to want to hear us steel and a fiddle. That's niche though.
I think that one day, we are going to see the "band" itself go away, all genres. As long as there are youngsters with dreams, it will never go away completely, but I think that you're going to see less and less active bands playing anywhere in a couple of decades. Depending on the establishment, the people there seem to respond more to the canned music than the band playing there, unless they came specifically to see that band. Sometimes it seems that the only reason the band is even there is because the bar owner himself wants to see a band, but that can't keep up forever. |
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Billy McCombs
From:
Bakersfield California, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2016 8:51 am
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My take on this is, you have to sell a lot of Booz. That's how the Bar pays the Band. I play in two Bands and they both sell a lot of drinks. At the end of the night that's what the Owner of the Bar wants to see. Also Tips for the Waitresses and the Bartender. The Singer reminds the Patrons several times a night to tip if there taken care of. Billy
_________________
78 Emmons PP,Great tone.82 Emmons SKH #56 |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 14 Apr 2016 9:17 am
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| So, now it sounds like, perhaps, this discussion may be about bar bands. |
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Billy McCombs
From:
Bakersfield California, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2016 9:55 am
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Lee. 
_________________
78 Emmons PP,Great tone.82 Emmons SKH #56 |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 15 Apr 2016 1:28 am
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
I think that one day, we are going to see the "band" itself go away, all genres. As long as there are youngsters with dreams, it will never go away completely, but I think that you're going to see less and less active bands playing anywhere in a couple of decades. Depending on the establishment, the people there seem to respond more to the canned music than the band playing there, unless they came specifically to see that band. Sometimes it seems that the only reason the band is even there is because the bar owner himself wants to see a band, but that can't keep up forever. |
Thats probably accurate as over the last couple of years, solo's, duo and trio's have taken over much of the live scene. The patrons pretty much don't care , in many cases they are totally disconnected from the music anyway.
BUT sadly, even after playing a duo/trio circuit steady for the last few years even those are dying away. First nobody had music, then everyone had music , then the rooms became empty as there was now music everywhere .
now add those silly every night of the week open mics and original music nights where people play for free and the bars are making a killing on Beer sales without paying a dime to the performers.
Then around here there are now half a dozen small restaurants where bands will come play Fri/Sat nights for 2 hours for tips and a food comp.
Thats now considered a gig...
NOT 
Why pay for music when people will come play for free?
Me , I'm back on the Sr's show/dance circuit...3 steady paying gigs each month, booked for the entire year. Yes Steel guitars are very appreciated and requested. I am required to play 2 or 3 Instrumentals each show.
I've come full circle so it seems ! This is how I started , playing the dances back in the 70's ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 15 Apr 2016 12:09 pm
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| Duane Reese wrote: |
| For everyone who doesn't meet those two requirements, it seems you often have only two choices: you either just play it at home by yourself, or play with people whose desire for a steel player comes from their own lack of talent and/or experience — particularly country experience. |
setting aside the very pessimistic attitude with which you expressed option two, there are actually three options.
sit at home. get hired by someone else. hire others.
you don't have to sit around waiting for a steel gig, you can go make your own.
j |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 15 Apr 2016 6:34 pm
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| I'm retired (from band life), Jamie. But I can still reflect on the old days, can't I? |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2016 6:48 pm
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I just don't see the problem here. I'm not gonna win any awards for my steel playing but I'm sorta the "old man" in this band ( been playing out in front of people since the late 1970s) , and I'm teaching them dynamics, how to swing a bit and V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y appreciation for the older repertiore.
I don't think they'd have had a George Jones song on there otherwise. That's a start.
Oh heck yeah it's a "bar band" and that's fine with me. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 5:52 pm
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Well I listen to a steel player one night who never kicked off one song never played a solo and just played pads the whole night.
He broke a string and was out for 2 songs and the band just did not sound as good when he wasn't playing,
A steel player accusing someone else of playing too loud. |
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