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Topic: Bury my heart at wounded knee lever |
Bob Knetzger
From:
Kirkland, WA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2016 4:42 pm |
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Had a sinking feeling last week on a gig when the RKR lever on my Carter failed.
The activation lever finger had cracked and bent--ugh. With a gig in 2 days I needed a fast fix.
I carefully persuaded it back into shape, then drilled and tapped some strategically placed holes and fabricated a splint out of aluminum. When screwed into place it makes the part even stronger than before. This poor lever does both the E9 2 string lowers and the C6 third string lower so it gets a workout. Glad to be back on the bandstand.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 26 Mar 2016 4:57 pm
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| Bravo! That is a very good fix. I have seen other solutions to that broken tongue that were also well executed. This is a known issue with Carter reversing levers. My solution was to order the part from John Fabian (if I recall correctly, he told me not to tell Ann that he was sending it for free). This part and some older style bellcranks that also cracked showed that there were some engineering issues needing to be addressed. They were always working on improving the design so it's not like they weren't paying attention. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 1:32 am
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Excellent ! Very strong with the triangle fix, it will survive a nuclear blast . I was initially thinking a right angle bracket alone but I like the triangle.
Brilliant mind along with nice tools.... 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 11:16 am
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Brilliant to say the least. Never had that problem though. My RKR pulls 2 strings on each neck, and I hit all my pedals and levers hard. I'll have to look at mine and see if they are starting to fail.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 11:29 am
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Brilliant fix. Happened to me on my LKR. Put a roll pin though the right angle to stabilize it.
hp |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 11:37 am
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Here was the fix that Lynn Kasdorf devised for me.
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Bob Knetzger
From:
Kirkland, WA USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 3:55 pm
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The way I pinned the brace there are actually four different "triangles" and together they completely support the weakened arm directly under the contact point with the mating reversing lever. Gusseting from underneath (where there's more room) wouldn't be as strong. This design distributes the load forces across the added sheer panel. I'm just lucky there is room on one side of the lever to do it.
Makes me wonder: so much of pedal steel mechanisms is based on rather massive solid pieces, either machined or cast. What would some radically outside the box thinking come up with instead? Insanely clever folded metal stampings that get their strength from structural 3D shapes instead of chunks of metal?
This might be a starting point?
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 8:20 pm Re: Bury my heart at wounded knee lever
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| Bob Knetzger wrote: |
...the RKR lever on my Carter failed....With a gig in 2 days .
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This is why everybody needs a 2nd steel.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 6:50 am
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| I'm really surprised that Bud would make a part like that, as it's a pretty poor design. The absence of a gusset, or at least a large radius where that crack occurred, invites failure of that part. Sharp internal corners like that set up what are called "stress risers", and that's a no-no for responsible design. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 7:31 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| I'm really surprised that Bud would make a part like that, as it's a pretty poor design. The absence of a gusset, or at least a large radius where that crack occurred, invites failure of that part. Sharp internal corners like that set up what are called "stress risers", and that's a no-no for responsible design. |
Agreed. Fabian also should have known better, Ann... not so much. Cost vs. projected usage may have been a factor in the decision making process. Why did Sho~Bud go to pot metal instead of better quality cast or milled aluminum? They may have decided most once-in-a-while hobbyist players would probably never break anything.
I have seen S~B knee lever stop brackets made in a standard "L" shape cut from castings that were guaranteed to fail, but on other S~Bs knee lever stops were triangulated castings. Go figure.
Nice, quality fix, BTW.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 2:33 pm
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There's nothing to stop Carter owners fabricating and putting those rinforcement gusset-plates on knee-lever reversing-brackets before they break, either. I'm thinking some nice 6061-T6 sheet gussets attached either side using countersunk aircraft rivets for a very neat and "it was built that way" look about it.
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 4:13 pm
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A button head cap screw threaded through the back side of the bracket into the broken arm would solve that problem and look much cleaner.
_________________
Jerry Jones |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2016 3:47 pm
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The high failure rate of Carter linkage parts is what stopped me from buying one, despite their reasonable prices.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2016 8:57 pm Bury my heart at wounded knee lever
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That is a wreck looking for a time to happen.
If there is a welding shop or Vo-Teck school near with a Heli-Arc welder. Just cut out an aluminum wedge that will fit. Take both parts to them and in 5 minutes they can have it welded in.
Another solution would be take a piece of aluminum the same thickness. Use the part as a pattern. Draw in extra metal for strength. Drill the holes and cut it out with a Saber Saw and a metal cutting blade. Smooth it up with a file and replace the piece. Good luck and Happy Steeling. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2016 4:47 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| Very strong with the triangle fix, it will survive a nuclear blast . |
| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
That is a wreck looking for a time to happen.
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Looks like we have a difference of opinion...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Mar 2016 9:18 am
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
Why did Sho~Bud go to pot metal instead of better quality cast or milled aluminum? They may have decided most once-in-a-while hobbyist players would probably never break anything.
I have seen S~B knee lever stop brackets made in a standard "L" shape cut from castings that were guaranteed to fail, but on other S~Bs knee lever stops were triangulated castings. Go figure.
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If I'm wrong, someone can correct me. But from what I heard, Sho~Bud adopted the pot-metal parts after they built the Fender "Artist" guitars, which utilized that stuff. Fender may have supplied them with a gazillion pot metal parts, so they just used what was left on their own guitars, and then continued to buy and use more of the same. Pot-metal stuff is far cheaper than machined parts for large volumes, just like the cheap stamped-metal parts that some builders use (and some players rave about).  |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2016 7:38 pm Bury my heart at wounded knee lever
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| My statement "A wreck looking for a time to happen". Was about the factory original part, Not the ones shown with triangle gussets screwed to them for strength. My suggestion about heli-arc welding a triangle on the piece for strength is just a neater version of strengthening the Lever contact point, Or making one from scratch with more strength built into it. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2016 8:19 pm
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| Sorry Bobby, I misunderstood what you were getting at! |
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