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Topic: Zumsteel's without metal plate for crossrod ends? |
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2016 10:51 pm |
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When did Bruce change from holes in the wood cabinet for the ends of crossrods to metal plates? Is there any performance problem with older Zums without that metal plate, like more likelihood of the crossrods binding? Was the plate used on both front and back? Thanks!
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 8 Mar 2016 11:12 pm
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i have the older style with no metal plate, never had any problems at all and i always figured there was a better tonal connection with the body. i dislike metal frames under steels. mine is very resonant without it.
i was a little disappointed when everyone started taking the easy way to build with that framework approach. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2016 11:20 pm
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Chris, are the dual-blade, or comb-style, bell cranks easy to get on and off? Bruce had mentioned to me that the with that style you had to get under the crossrod to undo something, couldn't quite follow his meaning, know anything about that? I always assumed it was an easy access hex set screw as it is on most square crossrods and bell cranks. Thanks!
Interesting what you say about the resonance, kind of makes sense. Did Bruce use Delrin inserts for better action and less friction, or something like that?
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 8 Mar 2016 11:27 pm
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| there's an allen screw on each bellcrank. you may have to move a rod to get to some of them. i think there are nylon type bushings. mine's an 82 and has always been wonderful. easy to change rod positions on the comb. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 1:30 am
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The comb-style cranks are less convenient to get to the cap screw that holds them in, as they're under the bellcrank.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 8:22 am
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Everybody, it seems, is SO concerned about "cabinet drop", that I would think the metal mounting plates on the sides of the cabinet would stiffen the cabinet and contribute to less cabinet drop.
But then, what do I know?  |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 8:42 am
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Can a Zum be updated with the single-blade bell cranks? Do they fit the crossrods?
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 9:08 am
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John,
I had a Zum at one time that had the updated bell cranks, so it can be done. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 9:10 am
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probably. how much money ya got?
then you'll need new pullrods too.
in bruce's book he said the new rods and bellcranks saved him alot of time and money.
he didn't say if it improved or worsened the action and tone.
too bad he didn't start with the simple easy style from the beginning. then we wouldn't have to question which method was better. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 9:33 am
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i thought this was a cool era because it had balance screw adjustmenfs inside the windows for over-undsr return on each string. i liked the look of the 'split tail' type housing.
later bruce changed back to the wrap around neck end that looks just like every other modern steel.
i liked his self-wound pickups. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 9:44 am
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The bellcranks are interchangeable on the rods. If you have combs and order more pulls from Bruce, you get the new ones.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2016 11:34 am
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Good answers, y'all, thanks! 
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 12:04 am
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Lane, the crank set screw is UNDER the bell crank? That's what Bruce said, too. How do you get to it to loosen and move bell cranks around? Can you share a photo of a loose one so I can see the situation? Thanks, if so. Question goes out to everyone: show me your Zum crossrod and bell crank, or a loose bell crank with set screw in place.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 5:48 am
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| John McClung wrote: |
| Can a Zum be updated with the single-blade bell cranks? Do they fit the crossrods? |
Yes, but you would need to change all the "pull-rods" too. To move the bell cranks, I loosen the pedal or knee lever stops and stanchions, & rotate the cross shaft c.c.w. to gain access to the crank tightening screw.
I prefer the comb type bell-cranks to the new ones. In some ways they are easier to use but are less space-space-effecient. To change bell-crank leverage positions, one can push the tuning nut (and changer finger) with the tuning wrench far enough forward that the rod pin clears the crank and can be moved up or down to another slot. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 5:50 am
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Tony, you would only need to change rods if you switch bellcranks. If you add pulls, you can mix on a shaft; yes, the two styles of rods are not interchangeable.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 14 Mar 2016 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 5:57 am
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John, the old comb-style bellcranks straddle the shaft with the open end on the bottom, and the screw goes underneath from keyhead side to changer side.
The new ones are open on the keyhead side.
They're both for ⅜" square shafts.
The near shaft is P4, the second shaft is P5
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 7:06 am
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| I much prefer the new style. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 8:59 pm
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Lane, thanks for the photo, that truly helps my understanding. 
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 15 Mar 2016 5:47 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Tony, you would only need to change rods if you switch bellcranks. If you add pulls, you can mix on a shaft; yes, the two styles of rods are not interchangeable. |
That's correct, but when John said upgrade I assumed he meant a full bell-crank change-over (rather than the addition of a new crank or two). In that scenario, he would need to use all new pull rods. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2016 8:56 am
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are those solid comb bellcranks that lane shows the new ones? used on everything 2000 up into the hybrids?
i thought bruces very early bellcranks were similar to those. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 15 Mar 2016 12:59 pm
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This is my 2003, U-12 Zum. As you can see it has solid comb bell cranks and the pull rod bends have holes with small clips in them. |
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