C6th three part question

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Hi gang. I have been wondering a few things.
1- when trying to learn a jazz standard such as nearness of you. I am trying to learn the melody along with the chords. Is it a common thing to stray from the chord position and pockets to get the right melody notes while strumming the chord. I only have a standard setup and I am having a hard time with finding the right area to get the chord and the melody notes on top. I find this requires slot of jumping around the neck. Or should I just omit the chord and go for the melody not. It's a minor 3 7th the second bar of the tune.

2- I understand that augmented chords suggest augmenting higher up the chord scale. I heard somewhere that an augmented 11th suggests that the key change is going to the 5 chord. Does this mean that augmented 9th is going to the the chord and 13th to the 7th etc.

3- Is there a website which will transpose standards from one key to another so I can learn the tune in the key that I want to play along with a guitar or steel player who didn't play it in the original key.

Thanks in advance guys! Much appreciate all the help I get here

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Quentin, I'll leave more experienced players to comment in detail, but my studies of C6 playing so far show that there is indeed a lot of jumping around to get the right note on top of the right chord, and disguising the moves is where the satisfaction lies. I also play trombone, which poses a similar challenge, so I regard it as all part of the fun. YMMV! Smile

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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

not being a skilled C6th player, more of a dabbler, I see it like any other instrument. When studying guitar ( still do ) I began by playing out of at least 3 different chord positions which I guess we can relate to pockets. When soloing on guitar it's a combination of all the pockets and lead in's to the pockets. I see the C6th tuning in the exact same way even though I am working out of a limited pocket skill set. But I am studying a bit more now than in the past.
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Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

Hey Quentin, this probably won't answer any of your questions directly but here's something that is working for me. The C6 neck was always kind of a maze except for playing real basic swing type chord progressions so I tried to make some structure out of it so I could figure out some chord-melody type arrangements.
I looked at chords as separate "families" based on their root strings. I only did this at the 12th fret and everything else follows from there...(later on it really helps to learn some reference note names at various frets on each root string) Take some tab paper and use one section for each root string. For example, for the 7th string root at 12 (and 10th string root as well with no pedals), find every possible "C" family chord you can come up with with your setup (C Major, C6, C7, C min, etc) You can write the particular chord variant under the tab "staff" and write the scale positions out for each string on the tab paper i.e. R, 3, 5, b7, 9 etc.
Then repeat the process for the 8th string "A" family root, 9th string "F" family root etc
Once you learn all of the variants for any particular root string you can learn to visualize them. (for example for any 7th string root with no pedals or knee levers, the 6th will always be on the 4th and 8th strings)
Get a detailed jazz chord progression for the tune you want to learn from a keyboard or guitar fake book or find it on-line and then the fun starts. At this point I'm thinking mostly chords with melody "connectors" to get from one to the next. So if the tune is in the key of G, I might start with the G chord (7th string root) on the 7th fret. If the melody goes up and the next chord is a 2min7 for example I'll be thinking of a nearby "A" root (7th string 9th fret? 8th string, 12th fret? etc) and once I pick the root, I'll try the various string, and pedal/lever combinations I've learned for that "family" to see if (1) I can play a min7 with that root string (2) and how does that voicing fit the melody. Definitely tab it out when you find something you like until you can learn it. It takes patience to find the right voicing and string grip that sounds right but there are lots of lush chords available on C6. This is kind of a mechanical way to look at things but it really opened up the neck for me.

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Jeff. This is pretty much what I have been doing on my C6 journey thus far. I find it has an advantage and disadvantage at the same time over 6 string guitar because you are limited to the tuning but I found that chord positions conveniently sub for other chords relevant to the key you are playing in.

I have minor7 major7 dim7 dim7 dom9 flat9 sharp9 mapped out. From there getting into tri tone substitutions and alternate chords/ chord substitutions is my next big "hurdle" I guess bottom line is "does it sound good?" Scenerio for me but I am unsure about when I can and can't add the full or partial chord and when do I need to go "outside " to get the right melody note. Part of my problem also I think I need to add some chromatic knee levers to my guitar.
I wish I knew what E forgot!

I should also mention. This is probably a Newby thing but do you guys find when you move in a direction on the neck you "paint yourself into a corner" I have a bad habit of going into the bass strings for minor 7 and Dom 9 etc chords. My melody note has went so low that I am stuck in the "mud"!ðŸ˜‘

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Quentin,

Unless you're devoted to the sound of having EVERY note of the melody harmonized with a chord under it, I would suggest that the best (IMO) arrangements are those that have chords mainly on the longer melody notes, and no chords under the shorter, passing notes of the melody. It makes for a nice variety instead of block chord/block chord/block chord for the whole melody. If you allow yourself to go out of chord position for a few quick single notes here and there, I think you'll find that you can make a pretty nice arrangement. Of course, as they say, YMMV.
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Joseph Napolitano · From: New Jersey, USA

Thanks for the great advice Jim . That's what I've always done with six string chord solos.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Chris may have the best answer yet, but the other thing I could have said earlier is that the way chord substitution works means that the root is often absent from the chord you're playing (whereas on the E9 it's usually present).

For instance, we start with an open C6 chord, flatten the 3rd with P6 so it's a Cm6, then call it F9 even though there's no F in it. Likewise we use Am6 as D9. Did my head in to begin with, but it gets better.

Also, be clear in your mind whether you're trying to supply your own bass notes or leave them to the accompaniment. So far I've only played C6 with backing tracks, and I only use the occasional bass note for emphasis. I have no plans to make the instrument self-contained.
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Paul Hoecherl · From: Washington, USA

Hi Quentin: Wow - Lots of great advice here!

I thought I would throw my 0.02 in, maybe you'll find something useful.

1- Speaking for myself, reaching for melody or passing notes in/around a double-stop (or maybe a shell) has been a great way for me to marry the "mechanical" practice of scales and modes to more meaningful (and useful) chart reading and improvisation.

Its the same approach I was taught as a kid playing in jazz bands and with many private instructors, so it seems natural to me. Plus, some jazz standards lend themselves really well to C6 like: Cherokee (Noble), All of Me (Marks/Simons), Sentimental Journey (Brown/Green).

2- I think of #11 as just a fancy b5 (up an octave), so mostly use it as a passing tone to a dominant, as often the case in jazz harmony. When transcribing/arranging solos, practicing pickups or lead-ins, I try to find inversions that yield good voice leading to the root or melody note I'm reaching for. For me it becomes a more natural part of my vocabulary that way, and a lot easier to call up when I'm improvising.

3- I have seen several place where this can be found, and a google image search will yield a pretty big pile of pics depicting various transpositions.

A great tool for doing this seamlessly at practice time is iReal Pro, which runs on iOS and Android devices. You can transpose or change tempo to any song in its library of 1000's of songs with a couple finger taps. You can also display chord voicings as they stream by (standard clef), a handy feature to find that pesky missing 3rd or ?.

Plus the app lets you load tons of songs through the publishers website, and there is a METRIC TON of songs there, especially jazz and western standards.

There are other tools that do this, but that one has been really helpful and easy to use for me.

HTH!
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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

As others have said, you don't need full chords under the melody all of the time. Sometimes it sounds more interesting to mix single note melody and chord melody in a song. You can also play partial chords if the full chord is not available on the fret where you are playing the melody. For example, if the song calls for a 7th chord you could play the melody note and the 5th, the 3rd, the 7b, or the root of that 7th chord along with the melody note.
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