| Author |
Topic: The right steel for sitting in on jams |
Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 9:29 am |
|
The trend in live music seems to be a lot of open mike nights and musicians inviting their friends to sit in, as opposed to one "closed" band.
Having said that, we all know it's a pain to carry and set up a pedal steel for just a few songs so I end up not playing at many of these.
My first thought was to bring a lapsteel which is simple to carry and set up but unless you look (and play) like Cindy Cashdollar, you're not going to get much attention as, let's face it, an old guy sitting down on a chair playing a flat board of a guitar on his lap is not very interesting.
So....now that Hudson guitars is making a light weight 6 string pedal steel, I'm thinking that might be the answer to a quick "sit in" guitar.
I'm not sure if it is marketed that way or more as an inexpensive starter pedal steel, but the idea of a bare bones lightweight easy setup is appealing. I'm thinking take it out of a gig bag, unfold legs or something similar and bam, you're set up to play.
Plus now I'd be able to cover rock, blues or country better than on a lapsteel.
Any thoughts on this?
_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro |
|
|
|
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 10:46 am
|
|
| fold down legs would make sense since 'quick and easy' would be the point. |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 11:28 am
|
|
Depending on the music, I could maybe get away with an 8 string, but I wouldn't be able to get by with a 6 string.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 12:15 pm
|
|
| Going in with a lap steel or a 6 string pedal steel-ish thing would be like taking a pocket knife to a gun fight.. |
|
|
|
Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 1:07 pm
|
|
I've used the Fessenden 6 shooter for exactly that situation and it works pretty well.
I've got mine set up as strings 3-8 of E9 with A & B pedals and you can certainly get the flavour of a pedal steel - enough to impress non-steel players at least.
Prior to that, I had it tuned to E B G# F# E B with A&B so with pedals down I had my regular A6 tuning anyway so it was a lap steel with a couple of tricks up my sleeve and almost as easy to transport!
I think the Hudson guitar does raises and lowers and has knee levers too but haven't tried one. |
|
|
|
Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 1:31 pm
|
|
| A Jackson Blackjack Custom would be a great steel for jams-singleneck, lightweight, has incredible looks, sound, playability, and tone. I play a Blackjack Custom and it's a wonderful guitar. |
|
|
|
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 3:31 pm
|
|
I have a Hudson console dobro. It's made very nice.
I have wanted to go to a some open mics but the few I went were unorganized
and you hang around sitting at the bar waiting to sit in. I would rather invite a some players over and jam for a few hours. |
|
|
|
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 3:34 pm Re: The right steel for sitting in on jams
|
|
| Tony Palmer wrote: |
| ...but unless you look (and play) like Cindy Cashdollar, you're not going to get much attention as, let's face it, an old guy sitting down on a chair playing a flat board of a guitar on his lap is not very interesting... |
There's a guy living a few doors from me who has a recording studio and produces hip-hop and heavy metal groups. He gave me a prerelease copy of one of his latest CDs to listen to and make suggestions, and I recommended that I could add pedal steel guitar parts to the numbers to good effect. His response was, "Do you think a group of black teenagers wants to have Santa Claus sitting at the back of the group? It would ruin their image." 
He's right, of course, it's image that the public wants, not musical content. That having been said, I used to carry around a lap steel fitted with palm levers in the trunk of my car, in case I needed it in a hurry. Unfortunately, I was never called on to use it.  |
|
|
|
Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 4:03 pm
|
|
I haven't been to a jam in at least a couple years. I hate moving my gear, setting up, tuning up, and then playing a few songs with wildly varying levels of musician, ALL FOR NO PAY!!
But if I was to go to another jam, I would want to play my best and make a good impression. That's hard to do if you've compromised on the equipment.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
|
|
|
James Holland
From:
Alabama, USA
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 4:11 pm
|
|
So, you are on to something. I think there's a market for someone who can figure out how to make a fold up model that sets up in 30 seconds, not counting tuning of course. Maybe just latch lids to the top and bottom like a rack case for protection. Put a shoulder strap on it. It would weigh about the same as a banjo in a case, yet much more compact.
In the meantime, I usually transport my fully assembled pedal steel in an SUV if at all possible. I saw the locals doing that, and followed suit. Its easier than it seems to navigate doorways and such. And I've gotten nimble so its semi-graceful to walk in with it.
Another option, is to setup a telecaster with the Hipshot B-bender that ALSO has a G-bender palm lever.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111545583672?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I'm dying to try one, but I'm forcing myself to focus on other goals right now. |
|
|
|
Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 5:17 pm
|
|
I think Brett Day has made a pretty good call. I'd reckon any of the ultra-lightweight pro-model steels (Blackjack, Zum Encore, Stage One, or any of similar ilk) would be the way to go for taking to jams or the dreaded open-mic thing.
Even a Carter S10 would work, although you probably wouldn't want to carry anything much heavier. A lightweight single-neck E9th 3X4 (or 4X5 at a pinch) should cover almost any jam you'd ever want to go to. That way you're not compromised, but your setup and strike time is minimal, and you don't need a lot of real-estate once you're set up.
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
|
|
|
Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 5:22 pm
|
|
I've done the transporting fully-assembled thing but jams aren't usually a good place to leave your almost $-5000 pedal steel sitting around the stage or floor until it's time to play. Like James said, something that you could walk on stage, unzip a gig bag and set up in under a minute is really the only way to pull off sitting in at an open mike. Yes a lap steel fits that bill perfectly, but I'm much more comfortable with a pedal steel than a lapsteel.
I'd like to find out more about the Fessenden six shooter...
_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro |
|
|
|
Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 5:53 pm Jam
|
|
The steel is an awkward instrument to sit in on. The upside is that when we go to the trouble of hauling that freight, we can expect to be paid, ideally. If I'm pulling a harmonica out of my pocket, and blowing through a vocal mic, not so much.
Obviously the downside is the footprint is so large, and the weight and set up time involved makes a quick jam a lot of work for the time you may spend playing. If you could sit on your amp, and enter with your steel set up, it might seem less awkward. And what if you need to leave the stage with your gear, before the jam is finished ? Navigating through the bandstand with your gear is a bit of a downer.
I must admit, I'm not speaking from experience. I've avoided the public jam, like an open mic "Blues Jam". It's not that I'm 100% against the jam concept, but it's a lot to haul if it's a no pay deal. On principal, the notion of the bar making money while I haul my heavy , expensive gear to play a short time for free seems odd. Especially if the band is not really "musical"
I'm all for it under different circumstances. I've played gigs on parade routes in New Orleans where a killer brass band will be marching by, and they get invited to play, sometimes the whole band, sometimes a single player. It's a blast.
Other times you'll play a show, and the next act , (definitely not country, most music in New Orleans is Afro-centric ) hears you play , and asks you to stick around.
Jam session on ! Get out of your comfort zone, just play music. It's great, assuming you want to play. I'm not sure if that counts as a jam session for them, but it is for me. One night the band didn't tell me we had cancelled. I show up, set up, and another band shows up. Gypsy jazz. They asked me to stay. Some good moments, some very humbling.
So.... Open mic blues type jam ? No thanks. Playing with good players/bands where it's musically rewarding, in a jam type situation? Sure. |
|
|
|
Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
|
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 6:33 pm
|
|
I came out of 'musical retirement' in 2006 by going to a jam session (technically an open mic) that my first ex-wife told me about. She called, drunk, after one of fthe Sunday jams to tell me I need to come down start playing again. She said the steel guitar player that comes to the jam was really bad. That band let a steel guitar player play as much as he wanted. I ended up blowing the other steel player out of the club. I ended up a member of the band when one of the two guitar players quit. They figured that since I was there almost every Sunday, that they would just pay me. I played in that band from 2006-2012, ironically, playing for the open mic every Sunday.
When I first went, I was told I could only do two songs, like the rest of the singers and players. I packed my stuff up and was going to leave. At the first break, I told them that setting up and tuning was too much work for two songs. That has happened when going to sit with a band, sometimes by their invitation. They tell me how little I get to play, and I take my stuff and go home.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 7:32 pm
|
|
| If you are not going to be paid. ..I would suggest taking a banjo or an accordian.. |
|
|
|
Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
|
Posted 9 Sep 2015 7:53 pm
|
|
What really gets me is the blues jams. Seems there is always the host band, made up of bass, drums and guitar, and they all get paid. Then they are constantly trying to get people to come out and play for free. They wouldn't play for free but I'm supposed to. Plus I've even heard them try to get people that play to put money in the band kitty, particularly if you use any part of their gear.
If anyone on stage is getting paid, I should be too.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 3:34 am
|
|
I too play a so called JAM ( organized) now and then at one of the local Senior Centers, non paid. Always a packed house. I add my name to the round robin list and I play perhaps 3 Steel Instrumentals during the jam. I also play this same room once or twice a month in a "PAID" capacity.
For me, I don't want to show up and not be able to execute what I practice . I even use these jams as extended practice as I never know what songs will be called. I want to play the best I can on every situation .
When all is said and done, I do not bring the D10 Pro III or the Emmons D10 PP, but I do bring out the S10 3+4 Sho Bud Pro I . Basically the only thing I don't bring is a C6th neck. All 3 of my Steels have the exact same E9th configuration.
And no I don't go to jams where other people are getting paid, thats not a jam. Thats nuts. And no, I also don't go to jams where they are NOT playing traditional country or it's not organized.
A good musician friend reminds me all the time that as musicians, we should look our best and play our best, every situation when we are in front of people. We really have no clue who's listening and what opportunities may be sitting right in front of our noses. Maybe a silently sitting band leader checking things out ? Checking YOU out ! 
So, bring an instrument you can play all your stuff on, Thats my take..
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 3:59 am
|
|
| For free, I would play a jaw harp. |
|
|
|
Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 4:05 am
|
|
A few clarifications to my original post:
I'm not talking about jams or open mikes in a strange bar or with musicians I don't know, I'm referring to nice familiar bars and restaurants where a bunch of my musician friends hang out and I know the house band anyway.
These become more of a social event and they're always bugging me to bring my steel and join in....which I want to do!
So, the ethics of getting musicians to play for free aside (which bothers me too, but we'll save that for another thread), I do want to sit in now and then, I certainly want to sound my best, but I'm thinking do I really need 10 strings, four pedals and four knee levers to play Waylon, the Eagles, Credence or even Stevie Ray?
A lapsteel won't cut it and a full blown pedal steel setup isn't necessary (as described)...so trying to think of a compromise.
_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 4:39 am
|
|
TP ( the other one) I say a 3+4 Pro Steel is in order.
Playing for free should be defined. I see playing for free at specific places, Senior Centers for example as a good way to "give back" . Of course it needs to be organized. I play one now and then, it is an every Wed occurrence but I don't go each week.
Playing for free in a bar setting where there is beer, food etc being sold is NOT a good thing and in my mind should be frowned upon. I play one of these now and then with a very good friend (Bluegrass) on Dobro and I get angry each time I go so I refrain from going. No cover charge, people buying beer and listening to us play , there is just something fundamentally wrong with that. It's called a Bluegrass jam. I will probably discuss this with my friend soon as he knows something is up as I don't come out very often, and he keeps calling.
If we are going to play for free, anywhere, make it matter.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 5:16 am
|
|
I have a very good friend who gets "paid" to be the house band for a blues jam session. And he earns every penny. These things are set up by the bar to give non working musicians an opportunity to get on on stage in front of an audience and experience that (and sell drinks to all their friends that come to watch . He has to be able to make any level of player feel welcome and comfortable regardless of their skill level. Trying to fit "ability" to the song list.. "covering" for people with less ability, keeping egos in check for those that want to show up and be "band leader" etc.
If I were good enough, I would go through the hassle of setting up and tearing down (how hard is it really with a S10?) Would I take my brand new Williams? Maybe not.. but I sold a S12 Shobud for $1350 that I would have taken and left on stage all night, and been comfortable letting anyone sit at.. I mean most of these guys are fairly savvy and are not going to throw your steel off the stage...
For all you pros, you been there/done that so I can certainly understand your not wanting to be a "free musician" but for a lot of us, that jam session will be our only opportunity to ever play out in public.. and our only real chance to feel what it is you get to feel on a regular basis.
PS. if you ever go to one of these, please give the house band a lot of credit.. they never know what skill level and personality is going to plug in next and they have to keep it a fun experience for every one.. tough duty. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 5:37 am
|
|
Hal you are describing a different scenario. Thats not really a jam, thats sounds more like an open mic or rather , open "Blues GUITAR" night. A player is sitting in with an established group of players.
I guess the term" jam" has many meanings...
As a Steel player ( even a new one ) seek out some Sr Centers , there may very well be some very good jams going on there where you could play the whole evening .
or find a few country singers and go to a Nursing Home. OR start your own Sr Center jam.
Have fun !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
|
Posted 10 Sep 2015 6:08 am
|
|
Tony.. the OP said "The trend in live music seems to be a lot of open mike nights and musicians inviting their friends to sit in, as opposed to one "closed" band. "
Sorry if I was off topic.. I agree "jams" can cover a lot of ground.
Your ideas of course are valid.. but for a lot of us "wanna be" rock stars  playing that bar gig is closer to what we think a "real" performer does. I think it would be rare for a senior citizen to pick up his cane and chunk it at you compared to that "Road House" or "Blues Brothers" scene where the stage is covered in chicken wire and the audience is throwing beer bottles to show their displeasure.. heheh.. |
|
|
|
