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Topic: Sho-Bud Professional action/setup |
Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 11:41 am |
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| I've been messing with an old Sho-Bud Professional D-10. It has seen very little playing time and spent most of its life sitting in the case. What are some of the top things you all pay attention to when getting these guitars setup? This is a rack and barrel type. The pedal action generally feels pretty clunky right now, but this thing sounds excellent! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 11:46 am
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If by "clunky", you mean the undercarriage is noisy, that is the nature of the beast. People have added a felt pad under the lever the pedal rod hooks to to lighten the sound of the lever hitting the bottom of the guitar. Some have put tape or something on the racks that are for the lowers that aren't being used to keep them from rattling.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 11:54 am
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| It is a little noisey, but what's getting my attention is that generally things just feel slow and the feel isn't there on the A pedal. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 12:03 pm
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| Because of limits in separate leverages, these work better with a wound six string on E9. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 2:44 pm
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One really important thing is to get it on a workbench upside-down and inspect the pull-rods for signs of friction. The R/B system has a lot of potential for friction points that kill the feel of the pedals. It does not take a ton of lube, just a drop here and there on the underside where things rub. I use Break Free CLP; I bought it at a gun shop. But there are lots of other good products. Just search.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 3:06 pm
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The three I have had all played great. Take some silver gaffer tape, cut it down to size (width) and wrap a few laps around the raise and lower racks for each pedal. That really quiets them down.
It's an old guitar so don't expect it to react like an all-pull guitar. Some of us like the old Professionals for that very reason. Plus they have 20 Grover Rotomatics on the tuning end which makes the guitar sound better!
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 3:43 pm
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| Tom Quinn wrote: |
It's an old guitar so don't expect it to react like an all-pull guitar. Some of us like the old Professionals for that very reason. |
I agree entirely! I like the immediate pull of modern pedals, but I really like the sloppier pull of my old Sho~Bud. Maybe there is more space to add "feel" to a note when it isn't changing from one to the other so fast. They each have a sound that's useful.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 3:49 pm
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| Tom Quinn wrote: |
The three I have had all played great. Take some silver gaffer tape, cut it down to size (width) and wrap a few laps around the raise and lower racks for each pedal. That really quiets them down.
It's an old guitar so don't expect it to react like an all-pull guitar. Some of us like the old Professionals for that very reason. Plus they have 20 Grover Rotomatics on the tuning end which makes the guitar sound better! |
I loved my Professional.the noise and action was part of it's charm. And no. You will never get it to feel like a modern all pull guitar.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 4:08 pm
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| I understand it will never play like a modern steel, but it needs some help--it should be smoother than it is. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 7:40 pm
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Lubrication and springs. They need to be optimized. Setting the barrels up to be as close to the racks as they can be without cramping other pulls on the same rod is important as well. So, if one string has 3 different changes, the pull-rod will have 3 barrels behind 3 different pullers. They need to be adjusted to pull the change, but not grab the next rack. The pedal throw can be slightly adjusted to give you a better range. It's easy once you get it on a bench and see how all the parts work together.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 29 Jul 2015 8:05 pm
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Great system, that rack and barrel. Get it working right, and you'll love it.
Just don't lube the threads on the barrels...they're what keeps the whole shebang in tune, and you don't want them screwing themselves in and out while you're playing.
And yeah, a wound 6th (22W) is a good call...that would help the feel on your B pedal. Your A pedal is probably just out of whack somewhere. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 3:49 am
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I used a 22 plain and never had any problems with it.
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Alan Bidmade
From:
Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 4:03 am
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Tom says
Take some silver gaffer tape, cut it down to size (width) and wrap a few laps around the raise and lower racks for each pedal. That really quiets them down.
Not sure quite what he means. What are 'raise and lower racks'?
_________________
Ben-Rom #017 'Lorelei', Guild D25, Epiphone 'Joe Pass', Roland 40XL, Hilton VP
First name Alan, but known as Nick |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 5:07 am
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The Professional doesn't use shafts and bellcranks.
It uses a pair of racks or baskets the width of the neck, with holes for the rods.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 6:00 am
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Be aware that you're not really going to be able to time pulls like you can on a newer, modern gtr. A rack that pulls 2 strings - both E's, for example - will have one barrel that will start it's travel a tad later than the other, because of the difference in the thickness of the strings. The thinner string will need to travel farther, and that means the thicker string's barrel will come in contact with the rack a smidge later than the barrel for the thinner string.
You'll be able to hear the lag between the two when you listen closely, alone by yourself in a quiet room (and playing the change slowly), but when you're playing in a live or studio situation, you won't hear it at all. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 6:32 am
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What Lane said Alan. There are two racks with 10 holes each. The rods go through the holes and a cool little brass thingie is set on the change rod just behind the rack. These racks are connected to the pedals via the standard setup. When you press a pedal, the rack is pulled back against the brass adjuster which is locked onto the rod to the changer.
If you take some gaffer tape and wrap a few turns around BOTH racks to tie them together it cancels out 95 percent of the rattle. You can get an old rack-and-barrel to play really well and they are a breeze to change copedents. I think they are fabulous guitars because they are made with beautiful wood, have the Gumby headstock and a pile of Grover Rotomatic tuners. An old 8X4 D-10 Professional is probably the best guitar a newbie could start out with.
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 7:21 am
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See Ricky's comments here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2218074&highlight=springs
You can go a long way towards balancing pulls on a Sho Bud Professional using the return springs.
In any case, it should not feel sluggish or clunky: Rick Abbott's suggestions above about lubrication are spot on.
Love my Rack and Barrel!! I might consider stepping down to a single neck some day, and maybe go to the two-whole pullers, but I wouldn't give up the barrels on a "single-raise; single-lower" (i.e., infinite) changer! |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 9:06 am
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'73 Racks;
'67 Racks;
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 9:49 am
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| Tom Quinn wrote: |
| I used a 22 plain and never had any problems with it. |
Me too. It would even lower to F# with ease.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 10:05 am
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Wow, Tom Quinn, that's a real clean looking guitar.
Thanks for all of the helpful advice from everyone, I will post an update once I get the chance to work on this thing next week. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 10:08 am
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If you look at John's excellent photos you will see that each pedal has two racks. Some of the racks are free floating with no rods going through them. Those are the ones that jingle when you press a pedal. By binding them together with gaffer tape, you stop that jingly noise 100 percent.
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 10:47 am
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| That's how mine looks right now, standard Emmons setup and no lowers on the first three racks. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 4:25 pm
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Ya know,,,,, if you're playing in your bedroom, with the amp on 0.5, you can hear the noise. But on stage, with a Twin on 3 or 4, you won't hear any noise at all, unless you have a microphonic pickup. It's never been any sort of a problem for me.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 5:18 pm
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Hearing the noises made me confident that my guitar was working correctly.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Gibson Hartwell
From:
Missoula, Montana, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2015 7:06 am
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Well I haven't had the chance to start messing witht he return springs, but suspect that might be a big part of what is going on. I'm moving one of the knee levers at the moment and need to find some longer pullrods for my E lowers. Any suggestions for sourcing parts? I sent an email to Michael Yahl already--his website lists them as unavailable.
Also, several of the pullrods on the E9 have a very rough finish to them. It's strange, most of the pullrods look like they are made of stainless steel but about 6 of the rods on the E9 are very rough to the touch (including the ones on the A pedal. I'm guessing that is adding quite a bit to the friction. Anyone experience this with their Sho~Bud? |
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