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Topic: C6 neck: E to F lever on s6 |
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 28 Jun 2015 10:21 pm |
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Many times when picking out melodic paussages in the open string position I find I need to slide up one fret on the E string to momentarily catch the 4th tone of the scale... Of course...nearly every other string in that position is then atonal...requiring damping to pick that one string which I find to detract from certain desirable interactions with other sustaining strings. .. etc. ..
While that scale tone can be reached by sliding up two and engaging P6 which drops a half tone netting out an 4th note..... it would be so much more convenient to have a half step raise on a knee for this note...sounds like a C6 version of a B pedal.... .it seems to be a void in the relatively standardized C6 copedent.
I have only been focused on C6 for a half year or so and am just following my ear for the most part. Suggestions welcome on work arounds... etc...m or just general dialogue on the pros and cons of this change and whether it's worth dropping other changes to get it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 29 Jun 2015 2:30 am
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When I started taking PSG seriously a year or two ago, I resolved to give the C6 equal attention. I soon found that it was much harder to find your way by ear than on the E9, and that there was going to be a lot more bar movement. Audible pedal changes are part of the E9 idiom, but the C6 seemed not to feature them. I had no lap-steel background to help me.
So I got the Buddy Emmons Basic C6 course, without which I don't think I would have got anywhere. He uses a lot of 4-note grips but only three picks. I realised that I didn't have enough years left ever to master his rake 2/pick 2 style, so I wear four picks. No problem, and the 4th one comes in handy in other ways. I also learned from looking at other material (e.g. Herb Steiner's) that missing out the second note from the bottom (a natural grip with three picks) often sounds just as good and sometimes better.
The E-F change (maybe with string 2 lowering to Eb on the same lever) is relatively new-fangled and often referred to as a "reverse P6". I wouldn't ditch anything yet.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2015 4:07 am
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Here's my take of this knee lever in a short tutorial from my web site. I mostly use it for major ninth chords and melodic strums. Note that I have it on an "E9" knee lever but the body on my MSA is so compact that I can easily reach it with my left knee:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab14.html
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 29 Jun 2015 10:04 am
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| Quote: |
| The E-F change (maybe with string 2 lowering to Eb on the same lever) is relatively new-fangled and often referred to as a "reverse P6". I wouldn't ditch anything yet. |
This is a very common change. The missing "F" note in the middle of the tuning has been an issue for many players, including myself, for many years. I had this "reverse P6" for a while, but I also have a pedal that lowers 5 to F, so I can still get that F note. I took the reverse P6 pedal off my guitar, but may put it back.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 5:52 am
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| Thanks all. ..I will check out the reverse P6 threads. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 9:55 am
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| Quote: |
The E-F change (maybe with string 2 lowering to Eb on the same lever) is relatively new-fangled and often referred to as a "reverse P6". I wouldn't ditch anything yet.
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Just wanted to add, this is in no way a new change. It has been around for many, many years. In the book, "Pedal Steel Guitar. A Manual of Style", with a copyright date of 1980, it lists a C6 tuning by John Hughey that he says he had in 1974 that has this "reverse P6". I also have copy of his tuning from 1995 that has it. Jimmy Crawford also had it in 1973. There's no telling how many others.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 10:43 am
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Richard, when I said "relatively", I was thinking 1975 - must be my age. I still think of the Winston Bible as a new publication. Everything you say is true 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 12:16 pm
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Well Ian, when you think of when all the other changes came about, it is relatively new in that context.
It's really too bad that we can't have an F in the middle of the tuning. It would ruin all the strums we get on the C6.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 1:52 pm
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After not touching my set up for 10 years I put that E to F on my 6th string and it is opening up some very cool doors.
It's on my 4th pedal.
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Bob |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 2:48 pm
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It's an advantage of the uni that that change is already there.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 2:53 pm
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| I had it to the left of the 5th pedal also. But I wanted that pedal for an E9th change. I left the C6 bell cranks in place. I may try to put the changes back on. That will be 4 pulls on that pedal between the 2 necks. If it doesn't affect the E9 pulls very much, I'll put them on. It was really cool to add the reverse P6 (now P4 on my guitar) to P5 to get the inverse chords that you get with P5 and P6 |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 3:21 pm
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Maybe I am just foot pedal lazy but I sure think I would prefer the change in a knee lever. ...
Bob... glad to hear it's a justifiable change. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Jul 2015 7:05 pm
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| Most do put it on a lever. But I have my levers all tied up with other changes. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 2 Jul 2015 12:32 pm
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| Check Buck Reid's copedant, he's has it on p4 lowering s2,raising s6 + raising s10 a whole step giving a nice Dm . It's the basis for "Kendra's Song" |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 5 Jul 2015 12:12 am
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I think E to F was the change on Dave Easley's famous home made lever.
On the uni, btw, you have it by releasing the E lower lever...
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 5 Jul 2015 5:14 am
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| Hi Olii...I haven't played my Uni for a while because I have been immersed in C6 on a D10.... no doubt that is why I didn't miss it on my Uni... |
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