J. Douglas Nashville pickup effect on acoustic tone?

Jeff Heard · From: Lopez Island, Washington, USA

I've been interested in the Jerry Douglas/Fishman Aura setup for my reso. Those of you reso players that use this rig, have you noticed any appreciable tone change when playing unplugged versus the sound of the original saddle?

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

I didn't notice a difference after installing mine but of course you can't do an A/B comparison in a given guitar so it's tough to really tell. I'm completely happy with my JD Fishman P/U armed Guernsey's tone acoustically.

There's been a lot of chatter about this over the last several years and I walked away from reading the threads with the conclusion that most can't hear any appreciable difference. I do recall that several owners of Tim Scheerhorn's wish list dobros wouldn't install the P/U for fear of degradation of tone, and if I owned one I'd probably be fearful too.

The other usual SGF dobro suspects will check in shortly I'm sure.

Jeff Heard · From: Lopez Island, Washington, USA

Thanks, Brian.

Mark Eaton · Posted 14 Apr 2015 10:09 pm

Were it a type of software, Fishman might have had names for the different generations of the pickup since it came on the market several years ago along the lines of Version 2.0, Version 3.0, etc. They didn't go that route, but changes have been made since the product's inception.

The earlier versions had the distinct pieces of metal "sandwiched" between the base and the cap as you can see in the first photo below where the slots for the strings have been cut. This is the one where some folks noticed a change in tone acoustically which would certainly make sense as the construction is radically different from the typical bridge insert where one might have ebony glued onto a maple base.

The latest version as shown in the second photo has done away with the metal piece in the middle and the word is that there is no noticeable effect on acoustic tone and a major benefit, according to Frank in Fishman Customer Service with whom I spoke over a year ago about this was that the new version also makes for a superior transfer of the sound to the piezo element of the pickup and it is more evenly distributed. The early versions sometimes had troubles in that area.

The bottom line is that in starting fresh with this product make sure to get the newer version without the sandwiched metal pieces, do not accept the old version.

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Mark

Jeff Heard · From: Lopez Island, Washington, USA

Thanks, Mark.

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

Oh yeah, Mark's right. I forgot about the version info. Important to get the newer version for sure. There were reports of unbalanced volume across the strings with the original model with the metal sandwich.

I've got the first version and it works fine but to install an old one now would mean you've got something that's been sitting around awhile and for all the effort of installation you'll want to insure it works right for ya!

Webb Kline · From: Bloomsburg, PA

I had both versions. I accidentally broke the first version and I'm glad I did. When I bought my MA6 Beard, I had tried Paul's own MA and that sold me on it, but it didn't have a pup in it. When I went to pick mine up when it was done, I loved it, but I could tell the difference. Paul explained that there really wasn't anything that could be done because there was a difference in the tone with the Fishman. Then I broke the bridge and took it down to Paul's for replacement, not knowing that the new version had come out. When he brought it out to me and strummed it, there was the tone that won me over when I tried Paul's MA out nearly a year earlier. He them explained the difference in the pups, and made a believer out of me. So, in making a short story long, the answer is, if you have the old pup, yes, if a new one, no. Actually, though I like to play it plugged in because it sounds a lot more like it does when I sit back and let someone else play it. When I'm playing it, it's a loud guitar and with that cove staring me in the face, I don't care for the sound of it as much as when I hear it being played by someone else. The Fishman replicates the natural tone that well.

Jeff Heard · From: Lopez Island, Washington, USA

Thanks, guys. Good info.
Brian, do you know a good reso luthier in the Seattle area?

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

To the best of my knowledge there is no one in our area that is really up on dobro set up or that I would trust to do a trouble free Fishman JD P/U install, or that I take my guitar to. There is one popular luthier and a specific bigger shop but I've heard horror stories from customers of both and I avoid them.

A possibility if your handy: purchase a Kent Schoonover modular spider with the pickup already slotted and mounted. You'd have to remove the cover plate and existing spider, drill a hole through the routed ledge the cone rests in and drill a hole through the guitar body for the jack. Then solder the leads from the pickup to the included guitar jack. This is what I did. I'm comfortable doing that work, but not slotting the pickups saddle for the strings or mounting the pickup itself in the spider. The spider mounting part is the part that diy folks have had problems with.

Kent's spider system is an upgrade in sound (IMO) and he sells the modular spider system with the pickup mounted and ready to go.

If you want to use a clip lock on your strap end on the lower bout, don't use the end pin style jack included with the pickup or you can't. You can't plug in a guitar cord and use the strap lock on the same pin.

Kent's system http://www.schoonoverresophonicguitars.com/schoonover_modular_spider.htm

Webb, after reading your post you're making me think I'm leaving some tone on the table by using the first model pickup!

Jeff Heard · From: Lopez Island, Washington, USA

Thanks, Brian.

Steve Branscom · From: Pacific NW

Nobody in Seattle or Portland that I know is good with Dobro's. Orville Johnson may know someone but I think he does his own work and his Fishman p/u was installed by Beard. The closest is Todd Clinesmith and he has related that he has a lot on his plate. Send it to Kent Schoonover or Paul Beard. You won't be dissatisfied with either.
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Steve

Mark Eaton · Posted 16 Apr 2015 8:26 am

I am finally, soon to put the Fishman Nashville p'up in my Clinesmith resonator. I am going the Schoonover route as outlined by Brian, and this is what Mike Witcher did a couple years ago when he had the Schoonover modular spider with the pickup put into his koa Clinesmith, and he reviewed the process with me at a workshop he taught in the Bay Area a couple weeks ago.

One thing I want to double check with Kent Schoonover since his version of the pickup/insert is different with screws on the bottom is does he use the new version without the metal piece sandwiched in there? he can't just order his pickups from the factory like everyone else.

In response to Brian's comment about possibly leaving tone on the table, though there have been problems with earlier iterations of the pickup, some folks are perfectly happy with it. If I had the older setup and I was happy with the acoustic tone and the pickup functioned electronically as it should, I probably wouldn't mess with it.

But in a new installation, I am not going for the older version of the pickup, no way, since I know the newer version is out there.

As far as the soldering, I'm taking it to a luthier. I realize that soldering isn't rocket science, but it's been decades since I've used a soldering iron, maybe in high school metal shop, and I'm not going to "practice" on my dobro during the installation of a pretty expensive pickup.
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Mark

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