Why not ask the people who made it first?

DG Whitley · Posted 14 Nov 2015 5:42 am

I'm sorry I have to ruffle some feathers here, but I've seen this too many times of this Forum. Someone will have a problem with product "X" and instead of contacting the manufacturer/builder, they ask the Forum instead.

While I agree the Forum has a great many experienced individuals who have seen everything there is to see, why didn't you ask the people who made it first? Is that so hard to do? Or are you hoping for the "cheap" way out of a mess of your own creation? I willing to bet a large number of these "help requests" would never have shown up here had the manufacturer/builder been contacted privately first. It should not matter if you bought it new or used, the original maker should be more than capable of taking care of your issue, if not, then the Forum is here for you.

Just my rant for today, you may now go back to your regular programming.

My 2 cents, YMMV.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I can't answer for every case, but I suppose that in some instances, the manufacturers may not be in business anymore. In others, they may be hard to contact, or not have a lot of time to continually deal with embarrassingly simple stuff, like overtuning. Lastly, I'd guess that members of the forum are both available, and that it's beneficial to get more opinions and access cumulative knowledge that isn't available from the builders. Smile

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I agree with the OP in principle, but in practice if all problems got sorted out quietly and efficiently, the rest of us would learn a heck of a lot less.

But the right to rant is paramount.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Jack Stanton · From: Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey

DG,
If you're referring to my post about the Stage One problem, the main reason I didn't go directly to Doug first was that I didn't buy it from him so he had no obligation to respond, although he showed what a class act he is by doing so.
I did contact him prior to buying the used one and if his waiting time wasn't so long I would have gladly spent the money for the Encore.
Also, as Ian pointed out, putting problems out there leads to more available knowledge for the next guy it happens to.

DG Whitley · Posted 14 Nov 2015 6:24 am

Donny, I don't disagree with anything you said, but if they are available, they (manufacturer) should be consulted first.

I would also say you could still use the forum as first point of contact (although I still think direct/private should be first) for others to learn from the experience.

I was just stating what I think should be the obvious, that if the manufacturer is available, they should be the "go to" folks with the Forum as a secondary.

Just my two cents, YMMV.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I believe that the forum community is the important thing here once one feels a part of it.
It may be good to go to the manufacturer first, but having many friendly and helpful guys handy has its appeal,
not just for the technical but for the social aspects. I'd ask my friends first.

As Ian says, the rest of us get something out of it too, another aspect of society and how we're bred to teach and learn.

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

This is a FORUM. People on a forum like to talk and discuss things. Yeah they want answers but they also like to chat. Chatting on here about a problem leads to a sharing of solutions and similar type problems amongst all of us. Sometimes this discussion leads to enhancements that others have made. Efficiency in getting answers is not always the most important thing. Sometimes being part of a brotherhood is and it's fun to post a topic and sit back and watch the answers come back and the discussion proceed.

Mark Hershey · From: New York, USA

There's value to having a historical record of experienced mechanics expertise being put down in writing.

With the search function that information can be valuable on down the road.

Second, the more we all know and learn the stronger our community is.

DG Whitley · Posted 14 Nov 2015 6:54 am

No Jack, not you in particular, but an accumulation of these requests I've seen over the years where, in the end, the original manufacturer was the one that helped fix the issue.

I do, however, disagree with your notion that Doug would have an issue with you calling him on one of his products, whether or not you were the original purchaser. Doug has a vested interest in each instrument he makes. While Doug may not have had a legal responsibility to help you, he has shown time and time again (as have many others here) that they consider customer service (whether original buyer or not) just as important as the sale itself. Doug is one of many here that go the extra mile, and should be recognized for that.

In other words, all the manufacturer can say is no, if that happens, then by all means bring it to the Forum. I just think too many are afraid to call because they may get a "no" answer or maybe be charged to get one (I can understand opting out of that one), but you won't know until you try.

To sum up, all I'm saying is give the manufacturer a try first, failing that, yes come here. But also feel free to share your experience on your issues as well for all to learn.

Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Let me add a few words of wisdom first written on these pages by our host Bob Lee.. It was a LONG time ago and he might not remember it but I do... We had one of these tug of wars about a "rant" by a disgruntled buyer that was angry about the QC of a new steel... Many members here angrily denounced the "ranter" telling him it should be discussed with the builder first and not aired out on the forum in public... Bob reminded everyone that this was after all a "steel PLAYERS forum, and not a manufacturers forum" and that builder QC or lack thereof was a topic that was fair game.. I agree.... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

DG Whitley · Posted 14 Nov 2015 8:16 am

I thought that is what I said:

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

You make some good points DG. I think most of us would just rather not bother the guys at the factories unless we have to. I guess we figure they're just super busy.

As to not being the original owner, I have found that almost all of the builders are very helpful when approached about issues with their instruments whether or not you bought it directly from them or their dealers.

But they are busy, and sometimes it takes them awhile to reply, so if you need immediate attention, you may have to go here or elsewhere.

I've received cheerful replies and helpful information from Bill Rudolph, Mike and Del, Bruce et al., when I've needed help, though me not being the original owner of their product.

The thing is, when you contact the mfg., you get the direct connection to the people who built your instrument and not a vague guess from people that may have actually never seen or played an instrument like yours. Some facets of build share a commonality and some don't.

OTOH, there are some very knowledgeable folk here.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

So many good points here. While I believe the person would be better, well maybe not better as there are some real knowledgeable people on here, contacting the builder, remember that every half hour spent on the phone helping, is another half hour away from building guitars. Add up 2 or 3 calls a day, and it can have a severe impact.

The most important thing I think that makes it best to seek help here is, someone else may have the same problem on their guitar, whether the same brand or not. They will benefit from the help offered here.

My biggest thing, I don't want to call it a complaint, is people looking for parts for their guitar that is still in production. The best place then, would be to contact the builder.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Jerry Berger · From: Nampa, Idaho USA

I am very fortunate to have two extremely knowledgeable people available, that live close by, to solve any psg problems that could ever exist. Those two guys are Larry Behm and Lynn Stafford. Very Happy

Bob Moore · From: N. Rose, New York

I would like to add my 2cents here. It's hard to help someone with a problem without pics of the problem. Then it can be resolved better. Bob M

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

No D.G's aiming that at me. I thought we put the Mullen to bed about five months ago. Tenn.Lee
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars,

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Come on Lee. You know we never put anything to bed on here. Laughing

_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

DG Whitley · Posted 15 Nov 2015 9:09 am

No Lee, I was not aiming at you or anyone else in particular. It was just an accumulation of many requests I have seen in recent months. I was only asking the question of why not talk to the manufacturer first, before bringing in the rest of the Forum. I was not trying to single out any one person or request, period. So let's move on.

I felt it was a valid question, and answers and opinions have been stated.

I can agree with some of them, but I think there should never be hesitation to call the manufacturer as a first contact. They should know that part of their business is customer service, and that interruptions of the manufacturing process is part of that requirement. I know that probably all PSG builders are small "Mom & Pop" operations, but customer service is as much of the equation as the sale and that should be a given. Lack of customer support will kill a business as surely as bad products.

That being said, I think it also proper to relay the experience the user had with the manufacturers support or ask for help on the Forum when that action fails to produce a resolution of the issue.

Again, I don't have an issue with people asking for help here on the Forum, that's a large part of what the Forum does. I'm just saying the builder of whatever product you have issues with should be first/primary contact (if they are still in operation that is).

I think this has really been made more of than was needed.

Lee Dassow · From: Jefferson, Georgia USA

Well thanks for the history lesson on how to deal with lifes problems, but I think we've heard that speech once before. YMMV T.L.
_________________
2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars,

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i have owned two of these guitars and i learned something from the post
plus i think asking on the forum and getting the answer keeps the MFG from having to spend time on the phone and lets them spend their time building more steels instead of answering the same question over and over when its a simple fix
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

DG Whitley · Posted 15 Nov 2015 2:09 pm

Well, see if I ever open my mouth again on here. It is one thing to be constructive, something else to be a sarcastic, just for the purpose of being that way. We're done. I don't need anything else from this forum, period. It's all yours.

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

DG,

Please don't let this get you too frustrated. You make a good point and contacting the manufacture assures you of getting the correct answer for the guitar in question. On the forum you get a lot of..... "I've never owned a BRAND X guitar, but I'd think you should......." Maybe a good answer and maybe not. In either case, it all works out in the end and I think everyone here has good intentions. There's a wealth of knowledge here and a lot of helpful people. I hope you stick around with us.

RC

Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

I'm on a car forum, and there are both similarities and differences in this situation. One point is that SOME guys like to do their own work - be it on a Corvette or a steel. And in doing so they may come up with some shortcut, improvement, or experience that can help a fellow owner. It's part of that "forum" experience Greg mentions above.

One difference seems to be that the customer service aspect seems to be carried far farther downstream in PSG than in a car. If you take a 25 year old Corvette to a Chevy dealer, 90% of the time they have no clue what to do with it, and have no parts or even tech resources to diagnose and repair a problem. But somehow if the original maker is still around, it's expected he will spend considerable time and effort on a steel which is on its seventh owner.

The fact that we hear many stories about builders who DO exactly that is a testament to their integrity. But the manufacture of these instruments seems to straddle a line of business vs. hobby - unlike auto manufacturing which is totally a business. We are fortunate to have builders who WILL take great pains with someone who did not buy it from them, and may never do so in the future.

Jimmie Hudson · From: North Carolina, USA

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic