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Micky Byrne


From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
Post  Posted 20 Apr 2015 12:43 am    
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Donny...I totally agree with you. I don't know about the States, but here in the U.K. a band these days with recession etc due to poor Government handling, will rarely pick a steel player for the line up...most clubs are calling for smaller bands, so the steel players suffer.Having said that I've done my time with lots of touring etc, both in U.K. and overseas, including your country from the 1970's when gigs were plentifull....and as they say "Got the T shirt" Very Happy


Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.
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Benton Allen


From:
Muscle Shoals, Alabama, USA
Post  Posted 20 Apr 2015 12:01 pm    
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Quote:

If a PP can't be kept in tune, the guitar doesn't have an intonation problem, the guitarist does.


Well, that's what I've always hated about you Herb. You always beat around the bush. You won't just come out and say what's on your mind! Smile

Cheers!
Benton
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Tom Quinn


Post  Posted 20 Apr 2015 1:10 pm    
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There will be a new crop of steel players just like there was when Jerry Garcia picked one in the late '60s. All it takes is one or two hot youngster bands with a steel in them.

Push Pulls have consistently increased in value. They are the '59 Les Pauls, Brazilian Martin D-28s, Selmer Mk 6 saxes, Lloyd Loar mandolins of the steel world.

I never had to fiddle with my main Emmons and I played for years in the honky tonks and biker bars of NorCal. I'm down to somewhere around 5'6+ from an inch or two taller when I was a kid and never had a problem with the ergonomics of the instrument.

A '52 Telecaster is primitive beyond belief compared to a Floyd-Rose-equipped Super Strat. But they still work pretty darn good in the hands of pickers who have the goods.
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I need an Emmons!
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C E Holden


From:
Austin, TX
Post  Posted 23 Apr 2015 11:50 am    
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I'd be happy to show anyone how to properly tune their push-pull. Once. Then if you take it home and get it rod-bound, it's on you.
Winking
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"il brutto"
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 23 Apr 2015 3:42 pm    
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b0b wrote:
Eric Philippsen wrote:
It's interesting that Emmons, and others can please correct me if I am wrong, really only made about 5000 push-pulls or so. That is an incredibly small number given the company's longevity and it included all models, including student ones.

"Only" 5000? That seems like a lot to me. Has anyone other than Sho-Bud made more?


According to Reece, MSA made over 10,000. And just going by the serial numbers used, Fender made over 5,000. I don't think anyone today will eclipse those numbers, except possibly GFI, simce no one else seems to be building large numbers, these days. Sad
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Mark Shuda

 

From:
Wisconsin, USA
Post  Posted 25 Apr 2015 5:39 am     Agree with Donnie
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I agree with Donnie, it seems like its the players that are declining. Every time the hearse goes by the world of traditional country western music and the pedal steel guitar gets smaller.
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Mark Twang
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chris ivey


From:
california (deceased)
Post  Posted 25 Apr 2015 8:31 am    
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Tom Quinn wrote:
There will be a new crop of steel players just like there was when Jerry Garcia picked one in the late '60s. All it takes is one or two hot youngster bands with a steel in them.

tom's right! go back to the dead, the new riders, poco....bingo...a whole new era of steel fanatics from that time on!
it could happen again.
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Dustin Rigsby


From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
Post  Posted 26 Apr 2015 8:51 pm    
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Hmmmm, I've got a 76 MSA D-10 that stays in tune and weather really don't have an effect on it. It weighs 82 pounds in the case,about the same as a P/P or a Pro II. That's the problem I have with it. My lower back is roached up and I need a lighter guitar. Hence I'm saving up for an SD-10 keyless 5&4 GFI. I thought about turning mine into an SD-10, but I think it's sacreligious to butcher up a perfectly functional vintage guitar and the 2up 2 down changer is a pain to modify for the modern copedant.....BTW, did I mention that it has awesome tone,thanks to the Telonics pickup ?
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Mike Vallandigham

 

From:
Martinez, CA
Post  Posted 8 Jul 2015 12:58 pm    
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I've had a PP for about 8 years, once I got it tewaked to my liking, I literally have not touched a thing. I don't even need to tune it usually, even after long periods of it not being used.

I could not imagine a more solid steel.

They're not hard to work on, you just have to know what you're doing. I used John Lacey's "Emmons Wilderness Guide" and another longer book...can't remember the name..I have it at home.

These really explain the finer points, and allow you to get that guitar feeling/working perfect.


Once I did all that, I've literally never touched a thing, apart from stringing it up.
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steve takacs


From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
Post  Posted 8 Jul 2015 7:05 pm     Stay tuned
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Mike Vallandigham, when you said this, I thought you were talking about my Kline steels:
"I've had a PP for about 8 years, once I got it tweaked to my liking, I literally have not touched a thing. I don't even need to tune it usually, even after long periods of it not being used.
I could not imagine a more solid steel."


ZB owners, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the same been said of ZB steels and is it true?
Steve
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chas smith


From:
Encino, CA, USA
Post  Posted 8 Jul 2015 9:46 pm    
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I have a lot of steel guitars and I have used different ones for different kinds of music. About a decade ago I got a D-11 wraparound that I had to completely rebuild. The sound that comes out of that guitar is noticeably different from all of my others, but it's not the sound that is always appropriate. I played on a concert with a Broadway star and for that one, my job was to be supportive with a warm sound that could "blossom" and I used my Sho-Bud Professional that has Bigsby copy pups at the bridge and Lawrence 705s at the neck. When I need that one to cut, I just roll off the 705s.
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Carl Mesrobian


From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 7:32 am    
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Mike Vallandigham wrote:
...They're not hard to work on, you just have to know what you're doing...


But they definitely have a learning curve Smile
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--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown
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chris ivey


From:
california (deceased)
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 9:22 am     nostradumbass...by the numbers
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1. steel players will not die off. only old negative farts say that. there will be more than there ever have been in the next decade.
2. emmons p/ps will forever increase in value
because they are a milestone and one of god's finest creations and are cool!
3. saying your steel 'stays in tune' has become a redundant joke. most steels stay in tune.
otherwise people would not be playing them.
4. franklins are 'not' worth 4x everything else, and this fad will end soon.

5. ...and that's not all!
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Carl Mesrobian


From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 9:58 am     Are 4 PP's worth One Franklin?
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As far as Franklin steels, I've never played one, but I think I'd find it hard to justify the cost, based on the gigs I do. My fatback Emmons guitars are fine, and the cost for both was less than half a Franklin (guitar, not $100 bill).
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--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown
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Ron Sodos


From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 10:35 am     Convinced !
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I have been playing since 1979 and have owned a couple of sho-buds a zum and a fessy. I always wondered about Emmons and years ago a friend of mine got rid of his and told me "I'm done with the Emmons thing". He said he had nothing but trouble with it. Well that was years ago. A couple of years ago I was talking to Jim Loessberg at the Phoenix show. I asked him how he got that incredible tone. He told me "Get a 60's Push Pull". Well recently one came up on the forum that was refurbished by Bryan Adams. Strange to say my wife actually talked me into buying it. From day one the tone was so different everyone that hears it is amazed at how different I sound. People in the audience that don't even know what a steel guitar is say "What did you change? You sound way better". Well currently I have a little problem with one of my changes and need help getting it right. It may take a push pull guy like Clem Schmitz helping me. I have tried everything and cannot seem to do it on my own. There definitely is a learning curve but I am convinced it is worth it.
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Herb Steiner

 

From:
Spicewood TX 78669
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 10:45 am    
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Chris lays out some provocative opinions, and not off-the-wall ones either. Those thoughts asked me to investigate my own feelings on the points he raised.

1. I agree that steel guitar will not die out. What the hardcore lovers of trad steel bemoan is the preponderance of guitar and keyboards in music that was once steel (and fiddle) based. That music is now anachronistic but can still be found all over in niche situations, just not on Top-40 radio. (Get over it, you're probably all listening to AM-talk radio anyway Laughing) Hating to deliver the bad news, y'all will probably have to move to Texas if you want to hear the traditional stuff performed in front of you. Wink

I don't think, though, that there will be more steel players than ever before, unless the steel miraculously makes inroads into different genres. One example of which I speak might be the tenor banjo. In the first half of the 20th century the popularity of the tenor banjo use as a rhythm instrument peaked in the 1930's as guitar replaced it in most dance and jazz orchestras. It still remained popular in Dixieland (read: traditional), however. By the 1960s, Dixieland jazz had become predominantly niche'd and generally found only in places occupied by tourists in NYC, Chicago, and of course New Orleans. Today people still play tenor banjos and companies still make them. Just not to the level as when the instrument was ubiquitous.

2. I hope Chris right about the value of the Emmons Original; I have some valuable ones. Smile And yes, I too feel it is a milestone and incredibly cool.

Just like certain musicians come along... Buddy being one of them... that change the way pickers think about playing, certain guitar designs come along that the market says "this is now the way a guitar should look." The Bigsby had its knock-offs, the Sho~Bud certainly did, and for the last few decades the compact mica/aluminum look of the Emmons is now very common amongst most steels made today. Not ubiquitous mind you, but quite a common standard.

One question comes to mind: would the Emmons guitar be as popular and revered as it is if there never was a Buddy Emmons as its first user?

3. Absolutely. The vast majority of steels that don't stay in tune is due to the hands, ears, and eyes of those playing them. or the guitars haven't been maintained properly.

BTW, are your nylon tuning nuts snug, or barely hanging on to the changer rods?

4. The Franklin is a great guitar, one of the best, and I understand it can do things other steels can't in terms of handling multiple pedal changes and such. As to the high price tags of these guitars however, a long-time Franklin owner told me that most of the Franklin users paid regular contemporary industry prices for new D-10 guitars, not the arguably exorbitant figures we hear about today.

But the question of the current value to me is this: as with the Emmons guitar and the power of personality, would a Franklin guitar command 10K if there never was a Paul Franklin Jr.?
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
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chris ivey


From:
california (deceased)
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 11:12 am    
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herb, i agree on the paul and buddy aspect!
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Skip Edwards

 

From:
LA,CA
Post  Posted 10 Dec 2015 11:25 am    
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It's way worth it, Ron...
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 11 Dec 2015 3:06 am    
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a couple of "my opinion" counter points

- it doesn't have to be a 60's PP to sound great.

- the final selling price of the instrument is many times determined by the one with the money in his or her hand. Don't ask why, I recently purchased two Emmons guitars, both negotiated in price as I was able to pay , as in today. 81 PP and 93 LII.

- true, I play and sound different on the 81 Push Pull as compared to my other Steels which also have unique but different tonal qualities. The PP certainly has a unique tone which inspires different phrasing.

- PP's are not hard to set up but you gotta know HOW to set them up or they will indeed cause you to part with it and think it is a piece of junk. It ain't the guitar. All Pull guitars exhibit the exact same phenomenon , if they are not setup properly they will play like cxxp.

thats it...



Smile
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
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William Polka


From:
Chicago, Illinois
Post  Posted 11 Dec 2015 6:41 pm    
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Damir Besic wrote:
I don't think steel guitar prices will go anywhere but down, in the next 10-15 years there will be nobody left to play them... JMHO

Are you saying my plan to open a 24 hour steel guitar store on the west side of Chicago is ill-conceived?
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