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Topic: Nasty Overtone on 4th string. |
Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2015 10:04 pm |
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I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before. But searching has been fruitless. So..
I've noticed recently that my high E has a nasty overtone that overpowers the actual note soon after the attack and still rings after the original note dies away.
This is true of almost any fret but especially higher up the neck. I DO dampen behind the bar and I notice it acoustically too.
Guitar is an '02 Sierra U12. I usually use GHS strings but have noticed it with earnie's balls too. Gauge is .014.
Anyone else have this problem? Cheap strings? Product of the guitar's design? (Please no out-and-out Sierra bashing, I know it's a tonally quirky axe).
Thanks comrades!
_________________
Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 4:36 am
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Have you tried scotching the string over where it crosses over the changer yet ?
_________________
Bob |
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Earl Terry
From:
norwalk Iowa, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 4:51 am
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| Hi Gary. I was having the same problem on my 1999 u12 Sierra yesterday. I changed only the four string from a Sit stainless to a earnie ball nickel. An damped that extra ring. Not perfect, but, acceptable. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 4:58 am
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Earl, the plain strings are ALL tinned steel. No difference between stainless and nickel. That's in the winding
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 4:59 am
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To my knowledge, the UNwound strings are all steel, neither stainless or nickle.
I suspect one of two things:
Check the roller near the tuning pegs and be sure it is clean and rolls freely.
Check to see if a groove has worn into the top of the changer finger where the string rolls over the top. If their is a groove there, it will overtone like crazy. May have to be VERY lightly sanded. |
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Earl Terry
From:
norwalk Iowa, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 5:49 am
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| I am beginning to see maybe a common problem on the same guitar on the same string. My changer and rollers are all bright and smooth. It maybe want Lane suggests. I have both of the slide in p/u's, one seems a little less prone to the ring or overtone. |
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Jack Goodson
From:
new brockton,alabama (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 6:08 am string problem
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| gary, i have a 1993 sierra session 12 string, not long after i got the guitar i put on a new set of strings (i will just call them brand x) could not get the guitar to sound right, it had bad overtones etc etc. finally put on another set of the strings always use and no more problem....thanksjack |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 6:09 am
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What happens if you move the string a little to one side or the other, as in not on the same place on the finger?
I'm inclined to suspect a small nick/burr/defect where the string crosses TDC of the finger.
To test my theory, hold down the C pedal (perhaps tune the C pedal to where it raises to G instead of F#, so that you're using a heretofore unused point of the finger arc) and pick the 4th string.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 9:24 am
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I have the exact same problem on the 4th string of my Sierra Crown series U12. There used to be some grooving on the changer fingers, but I carefully sanded and polished them (with generous advice and encouragement from Lynn Stafford). The fingers are smooth now, but it didn't really solve the problem on string 4. I'm using a .014 string in that position and am starting to wonder if a .015 would work there. Maybe that would tame it?
John
PS - I've checked the rollers at the nut and have tried the "drop of oil on the roller" trick. Didn't help. |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 12:03 pm
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Thanks so much for the prompt replies, fellas.
Bob, you mean just regular scotch tape? I'll try that today. I'm just starting a session and I'd love a quick fix!!
_________________
Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 12:19 pm
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Gary, I don't want to put words in Bob's mouth, but I think he meant you should try moving the string just a bit off-center on the finger so it's not sitting on its usual worn spot.
John |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 12:24 pm
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Hi Gary, it's good to see a post from you.
I have to say that, in the 10 years I played my Sierra "Crown" series S14 universal, I never experienced the problem you've described. With that said, I think that Lane's comment about tuning the 4th string so that the C pedal raises it to G, allowing the TDC to be at a different point on the radius of the changer finger, has merit.
Although, these days I'm exclusively playing an Emmons P/P, I always polish the radius on the changer fingers and spin the rollers at the nut when ever I change strings (I did that with the Sierra, too). Maybe that prevented the problem, or maybe I've just been lucky.
Best wishes for resolving your string problem and for a successful session date. 
Keep on pickin'
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 12:32 pm
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| Gary Newcomb wrote: |
| Bob, you mean just regular scotch tape? I'll try that today. I'm just starting a session and I'd love a quick fix!! |
I'm pretty sure Bob was saying to 'scootch' (move) the string over a tiny bit. It's probably sitting in a tiny groove on the changer finger. As others have suggested, just loosen that string enough so you can move it over a little (out of its groove) and see if that temporarily helps.
If so, you can do a longer-term fix by very lightly sanding out that groove using 600-grit wet sandpaper. It's critical that you not sand a flat spot on top of the finger or you will create a new problem -- you want to maintain the same arc after the job, so sand all around the curve, rather than just grinding on top of the finger. |
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Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 4:08 pm
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Since all the other suggestions fall under the guise of a "crap shoot" so far ( and not to imply they might not have validity), let me just fire off this load to you;
The section of string behind the roller nut can cause unwanted tones idue to sympathetic vibrations. To see if this is any part of your problem, simply mute the strings in the tuning head section with a cloth. Strings 4, 5, and an unwound 6 will be the most noticeable culprits.
The fact that you stated the problem occurs on frets all the way up the neck may be the biggest clue that my suggestion is without merit.
Might not be your problem, but it can't hurt to check.
_________________
Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else |
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Earl Terry
From:
norwalk Iowa, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 5:23 pm
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| Steve, I was wondering. what I can do, I have the Sierra geared tuner head model, with little, strings past the rollers. Just looking for more ideas. Thanks |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 5:45 pm
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My SIT 4th string had a pretty strong overtone from string resonance behind the bar...had to really focus on my damping to control it...
After a bit of working in...it seemed to loose this characteristic.
My going theory is there is a bunch of work hardening on the Sit strings that makes them stiffer in vibration.
That said... I like the tone of them quite a bit after they settle in.
As an aside... stainless plain strings I believe are what is referred to as Swedish Steel...a stainless that can alter a magnetic field due to its special metallurgy. Lane...I dont think tinned strings are very common anymore.
Seems like a good opportunity to open the discussion as to any link between magnetic permeability and quantum electrodynamics.... lol |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 9:31 pm Check Pickup Height
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When a guitar pickup is set very high (too close to strings) it can magnetically interact with the strings themselves. Might have nothing to do with your issue, but may be worth your time to lower the pickup and check for any difference.
Dan |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2015 3:16 am
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I've seen this before, and it has always been at the nut rollers. I had to clean or replace a couple to stop it.
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 24 Mar 2015 4:25 am
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| The only thing that has ever worked for me is to carefully sand down the top of the changer finger, till the groove is gone. I use a strip of rubber as wide as the finger, backing a strip of 600 grit emery cloth. Move it back and forth following the contour of the finger. Then put a small dab of polish on top, wrap the same piece of rubber with some cloth from an old T shirt, and polish it. |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2015 9:24 am
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| John Booth wrote: |
| I've seen this before, and it has always been at the nut rollers. I had to clean or replace a couple to stop it. |
That just might be the problem in my case. I did an experiment that made me pretty sure it was nothing to do with the changer finger. I moved the bar along the fretboard until I found a spot where the string 4 harshness was the worst. Then I pressed the C pedal, and the sound improved. But with the C pedal down and the bar 2 frets lower, the harshness was back. In other words, the harshness occurs at certain pitches, regardless of what's being done with the pedals.
John |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2015 2:59 pm
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You guys have been champs, thanks for the input. It's definitely a little groove on the roller nut! I'm going to drink a full beer for each one of y'all!
_________________
Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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