| Author |
Topic: String problem. |
Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 10:17 am |
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Dear Abby,
E9 tuning. I'm breaking strings on the high G# (3rd string), or more exactly, they're unwinding at the ball. They just dont like going up that high, let alone being raised. I've tried 3 different brands, and 10s and 11s. The rollers on the bridge are smooth, no burrs, and I cannot see any reason for this other than I must be on the wrong track (I'm a raw newbie). I tried putting a heavier string on in desperation, and tuning it an octave down so I could start practicing, but it sounds all wrong. All 5 G# strings I put on have unwound at the ball end. Is there a trick to this that I dont know about?
Signed,
Desperate in New Zealand. |
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James Wolf
From:
Georgia
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 10:25 am
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Could you take a picture of your changer from the top/back where the ball ends are and post it? Is the string breaking or unwinding? That sounds to me like two entirely different things. I assume the strings break when you raise them? Do you know for certain that the string is raising to the correct pitch and not over shooting?
Thanks,
Wolf |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 10:49 am
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If your strings are unwinding at the ball end, you've got some badly made strings. They're supposed to have a locktwist to prevent that. I'd like to see some pics, as that's hearing hoofbeats and finding zebras. In Iowa.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 11:28 am
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| Hi, will post a pic tonight when I get home. I meant the strings are unwinding, not actually breaking. The winding just completely unravels, and the lock twist is not holding it. I'm tuning to G# (it's the highest pitch string on the PSG, right?)and most times it does not even make it up to pitch. A couple got to pitch but then unwound when raising to A, so they must have been right on the verge of letting go at G#. So far I've tried LiveSteel, GHS and Dunlop strings. All the other strings are fine (they're Live)with no problem at all. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 12:46 pm
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| i hope we're not talking about a wound string on the 3rd string. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 1:24 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| i hope we're not talking about a wound string on the 3rd string. |
No, plain 10 or 11. |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 1:52 pm
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Waitng for pictures 
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 2:48 pm
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| what is the scale of the guitar? |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 2:59 pm
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Also friend, do your ball ends go in a slot or on a little peg back there?
I ask because I had the peg type and slipped the peg into the string loop instead of thru the hole in the ball end once and it did the same thing
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 3:20 pm
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| John Booth wrote: |
Also friend, do your ball ends go in a slot or on a little peg back there?
I ask because I had the peg type and slipped the peg into the string loop instead of thru the hole in the ball end once and it did the same thing |
Peg type, but I'm very careful to get them on right. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 3:20 pm
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| RC Antolina wrote: |
| Waitng for pictures |
Will do when I get home from work. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 3:57 pm
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Marty what part of NZ are you in mate ... cheap guitar strings aren't always a good option for PSG either.
What sort of guitar do you have ? and what brand of strings are you using ? I could send you something to try out
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 4:20 pm
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Doesn't make sense. He says he used Live Steel, GHS and Dunlop strings. I don't know anything about Dunlop strings (didn't know they made them), but Live Steel and GHS are top name strings. I have never had an unwound string come unwound. A couple of wounds came unwound, but never a plain, and that was only the winding, not the core string coming unwound from the ball end. Since it is happening with three different brands, it has to be guitar or user related. Pictures and guitar brand will help.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 4:33 pm
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| this is a good mystery. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 5:03 pm
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So, let's think about this. Something would have to "twist" the string
for that to happen. lets say he puts the ball end on the changer peg properly,
then winds the string around the tuning peg by hand rather than by
turning the tuning peg, depending on the direction he is winding the
loop on the ball end *might* open up and come off the ball end?
Possibly, maybe?
_________________
Jb in Ohio
..................................
GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 6:10 pm
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| Paddy Long wrote: |
Marty what part of NZ are you in mate ... cheap guitar strings aren't always a good option for PSG either.
What sort of guitar do you have ? and what brand of strings are you using ? I could send you something to try out |
Hi Paddy,
I've heard of you. I'm in Napier, I'm actually a double bass player, but recently picked up an old Lomax Monarch 10 in clapped out condition. I have completely rebuilt it, reconfigured the carrier for standard E9 and rebuilt all the linkages and levers. I cut it down from 5+4 to 3+3 to make it easier to learn on (the RKR was the volume control anyway). I'm using LiveSteel strings which I bought from the USA and which a lot here seem to recommend. Always open to improvements though.
Cheers,
Marty. |
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 6:44 pm
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| I had same problem. Except I have a hole the string passes through and ball end doesn't. I stuck a washer under ball end to distribute the stresses a bit and so far so good. Note that I tuned down to D though. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 7:46 pm
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| John Booth wrote: |
So, let's think about this. Something would have to "twist" the string
for that to happen. lets say he puts the ball end on the changer peg properly,
then winds the string around the tuning peg by hand rather than by
turning the tuning peg, depending on the direction he is winding the
loop on the ball end *might* open up and come off the ball end?
Possibly, maybe? |
Nope. Winding them on with a peg winder. Being a guitar tech is part of my day job, but this is the first pedal steel I've worked on, and it's only the high G# that's doing it. All the rest are fine. The guitar is a Lomax, built in New Zealand, and was originally a C6. The previous owner had changed it to some sort of E9, but I've rebuilt it completely to "standard" Nashville E9.
My problem is that the .010 or .011 strings specified for the 3rd string are really designed to be tuned to E. Now G# rising to A is five half-steps up from E, and is putting a heck of a tension on that string.... but as I said, I'm a newbie so may be doing something wrong.
I'll be home soon, so will put up pics. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 8:28 pm
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OK, here we go.
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 8:28 pm
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.010, .011 and even .012 are used ALL the time for the third string by thousands. Those are the correct gauges. The string gauge is not the problem.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 12:21 am
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| Update... I came home with four spare Dunlop strings, prepared to do battle. The first one I put on, with trepidation, held at G#. Yippee! Jump on pedal 2, again with trepidation..... It held. Now that is weird. Unwound five strings in a row, held on the sixth. I cant explain it, that's for sure. |
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Marty Forrer
From:
New Zealand
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 12:52 am
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| Oops! spoke too soon. This one didn't unwind, it actually broke about 1 1/2" from the ball. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 1:07 am
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| Ross Shafer wrote: |
| what is the scale of the guitar? |
Yes, that's a good question, Ross.
Marty, is it longer than 24-1/4"? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 1:14 am
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I don't know about the other folks, but I'd meant pics of the string after breaking, because your problem is RARE.
Richard is right, we've been using anything from .010 to .012 for decades. I once accidentally put a .022 there and it went to pitch without breaking. As for breaking 1.5" from the ball, that's the most common place; the string leaves the finger and heads for open space there. Inspect the top of the arc for burrs and grooves, as they'll cause problems both with breakage and tone quality.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 2:33 am
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What are those rollers ahead of the changer fingers?
If the strings pass over them, effectively making the rollers the bridge (think guitar) then the extra string length required could be the culprit |
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