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Topic: Modern Steel with shobud tone? |
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 7:14 am |
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The same as I mentioned on another recent thread. If you want the sound of a certain brand guitar, the only way to get that sound is to have that brand of guitar.
The sum of all the parts, as previously mentioned, makes up the characteristic sound of a particular brand/model.
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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 7:45 am
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| Roger Francis wrote: |
http://youtu.be/fQekvui-HAs
Here ya go Tom |
Thanks!
The room mic is getting spill from the guitar itself, so my guess is that about 30 percent of the tone is from that - that gives more metallic-ish top end then what a miced amp would give...the resonance and pop in the deep tones is what I like about this recording.
Jack: while true on the whole, design is about getting the right balance of factors. I think shobud did a great job on the topside of the cabinet, cast keyheads, the right nut design, etc. and matching the pickup. The character of the S10 in the video clip is essentially the same as on the E9 neck of my D10...pretty counterintuitive considering all the things that are different...
This suggests there's a way to improve the balance without sacrificing tonal character.
Jackson has probably done it, but I doubt I could part with the coinage new or used. Missed the opportunity of a lifetime on one that came up relatively locally, a year or so ago.
My late 70's MSA still gets the most play time. They struck a great balance, but it's not the top in any one factor.
I don't expect player's who own Franklin's to understand...haha |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 1:46 pm
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I actually don't think Sho Buds have a sound. There are some great sounding ShoBuds out there but they are not consistent at all. Different designs, materials, builders. Even the quality of the wood is inconsistent. Some aged and some slapped together while still green.
The metal used was often a total mess. Real crap made with brittle and weak tin. I am lucky to get to hear guys that play fantastic buds in Austin. Guys like Ricky Davis and Don Don get a heartbreaking tone out of there Sho Buds. Also Dave Biller had a fingertip that was perfect sounding.
I have guys show me there new vintage sho buds they bought on ebay and they have me check out that classic Sho Bud tone and all I hear is uneven tone like the strings have been on there for 2 years, a bunch of dead spots on the neck, a weak noisy pickup and a bunch of clanking with mushy pedals.
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Bob |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 4:35 pm
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| My Jackson Blackjack Custom sounds similar to a Sho-Bud. It's got a Shot Jackson pickup and I think it gives me the sound I've been looking for for fourteen years. My Jackson Steel, known as "Black Diamond" has the best sound and tone I've experienced out of the guitars I've owned and played |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 5:58 pm
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The "Sho-Bud tone" that everyone is talking about is great for traditional country, but it isn't real versatile, in my opinion. If I'm playing blues, rock or swing, I want less twang. I've always found Sho-Bud pickups hard to push in those directions. Not saying it can't be done - Doug Jernigan used a Sho-Bud for jazz on Doug & Bucky - just that other pickups give me a broader range of tones.
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 7:53 pm
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| I can understand that perspective. The tone is typecast for sure. Amazing how certain things, as arbitrary as they are, becomes so engrained in our perception. |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 14 Nov 2014 8:09 pm
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| One of my favorite female artists, Danni Leigh has a traditional country sound, and my Jackson Steel sounds awesome when I play with her songs. And, when I play along with Dan Dugmore on Gary Allan's "Smoke Rings In The Dark" record and a song on Gary's "See If I Care" record called "A Showman's Life", my Jackson Steel gets a sound similar to the Sho-Bud |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 2:39 am
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| And then there is the amp. Is the Standel the "ultimate" Sho-Bud amp or what do you guys like to hear? I like it all: clean, fat, whiny, warm, sharp, but for me, nothing beats Charleton's tone through a Standel on those old Ernest Tubb recordings. He did not fear having some hair on the signal. His amps on most of those recordings sound like they were dialed pretty hot. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 10:21 am
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| Daniel Policarpo wrote: |
| And then there is the amp. Is the Standel the "ultimate" Sho-Bud amp or what do you guys like to hear? I like it all: clean, fat, whiny, warm, sharp, but for me, nothing beats Charleton's tone through a Standel on those old Ernest Tubb recordings. He did not fear having some hair on the signal. His amps on most of those recordings sound like they were dialed pretty hot. |
I have Charleton's Standel amp. I bought it from him a while back. He told me at a lesson one time that his favorite sounding amp was his Princeton reverb that he had at home. He said it wasn't worth the trouble to deal with a big tube amp.. He was happy with his Peaveys.
As far as Sho Buds go he said that once he played an Emmons he never looked back.
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Bob |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 10:43 am It's the SOUND!
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The SOUND that I so closely hear in all of Lloyd Green's is the SOUND that I initially chased for a dozen or more years. I was never able to achieve it with my Emmons, altho' the Emmons gives me everything I ever wanted..........
Sarah Jory in her earlier years and David Hartley both come closer to delivering "that SOUND" than anyone else I've ever heard.
It could be his Sho-Bud but again, couldn't it be the
amp and/or affects that he's always dicking with while on stage? Truly a master........I've never felt 'the SOUND' was totally attributable to just the guitar. I watch his hands as related to the pickup, etc. His 'SOUND' did draw me to Nashville and to the Sho-Bud store on Broad Steet for the purpose of playing a Sho-Bud and with money in my pocket for the sole purpose of going home with one of those fabulous sounding guitars under my arm.
I was not invited to play one; nor was I even greeted by the store clerks up front and/or directed to such a guitar.
When I complained about this, the store manager sent me a note telling me "the next time you're in Nashville, drop by".......... Oh well.
I still long to hear whether or not I could have generated THAT "Lloyd Gree" sound with a Sho-Bud. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 10:55 am
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No doubt the Emmons has a better balance of factors...but with a different tone...
A gentleman I know had a rather frank conversation with a famous steel player who had ditched his Emmons in favor of MSA...
Judging from Charleton's comments on amps...he was looking for the right balance. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 12:20 pm Re: It's the SOUND!
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
Sarah Jory in her earlier years and David Hartley both come closer to delivering "that SOUND" than anyone else I've ever heard. |
Hi Ray, can you describe in some detail what you believe you are hearing common between these players?
I know what I hear, and appreciate certain factors in the way I do and have described, but those perceptions aren't necessarily the same as yours.
What I love about Sarah Jory is her very 'forward' musical style...i've commented in the past that my Sho bud sounds it's finest when being played in an aggressive forward manner. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 5:20 pm A good question but difficult for me to answer..........
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The sound that buzzes my brain is very unique and not always available throughout each song played but rather..........
a SOUND that gives you only a momentary glimpse into it. It's somewhat like the mysterious shuddering noise or slight vibration one might encounter while flying a single engine airplane at night over in hospitable terrain in extremely bad weather.
It's not an achievable item via a tuning or amp setting nor a Pro-Fex that I believe I'm hearing but that thing Lloyd is always fidgeting with on the floor to his right, could quite possibly be the root cause of what I'm hearing and am intrigued by.
I'll try to pin it down from something specific on You Tube. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 5:44 pm Continuing from above............
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Just replayed/listened to Lloyd Green playing "Farewell Party" on You Tube.
From measure one throughout most of the song.......is the sound of which I speak and of course, it's not even on a Sho=Bud. How 'bout that? |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 7:05 pm Tone Comparison
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Here is a link to a comparison between the tone Buddy Charleton had first with the Sho~Bud, and then after he switched to an Emmons. It's only a minute and a half long. First, two turn-arounds on the Sho~Bud, followed by two tunes by Buddy on his Emmons. All songs direct from CD, no eq added. See if you can tell the difference.
Sho~Bud - Emmons comparison:
http://picosong.com/4qRT
Best regards,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
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"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Billy McCombs
From:
Bakersfield California, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 7:39 pm
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Does the Emmons turn around start at 33:00?
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78 Emmons PP,Great tone.82 Emmons SKH #56 |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 8:08 pm Re: Modern Steel with shobud tone?
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
| Outside of Jackson and ShowPro, which appear to have deep ties back to Shobud, which steels have something more like the vintage Shobud tone? |
now, if we are talking about "something like Sho~Bud tone" is one thing, Maybe pull/release Marlen, but if we are talking "Sho~Bud tone" than I must say, none, when it comes to the tone, there is two guitars that will always have a distinctive tone, Sho~Bud and Emmons , and no other guitar will sound like any of those two...
db
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https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 8:16 pm
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Billy, the first two tunes are Sho~Bud. The Emmons appears at :44 seconds in.
Craig
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"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 8:28 pm
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| Are Show Pro not an approximation of the Sho-Bud sound with a modern mechanics? |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 11:22 pm
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| Yes, mentioned Jackson and ShowPro in first post because they are well known descendents...was initially looking to make a list of tonal relatives...fulwalka, carter, marlen p/r are apparently candidates pushing in the shobud direction. |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 11:57 pm
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
I have Charleton's Standel amp. I bought it from him a while back. He told me at a lesson one time that his favorite sounding amp was his Princeton reverb that he had at home. He said it wasn't worth the trouble to deal with a big tube amp.. He was happy with his Peaveys.
As far as Sho Buds go he said that once he played an Emmons he never looked back. |
That's fantastic, Bob; not only that you were able to play and take a lesson with Charleton, but that his old Standel is in a steel picker's hands. How do you like it? |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 4:14 pm sho-bud tone
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| I think the two videos of David Hartley playing a sho bud pro 1 sum it up pretty well. They just have a different tone than his others on the Rains and Jistice guitars. |
Agree!! That Pro I sounds better than his other guitars for sure! Not that they don't sound good they do.
terry |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 9:05 pm
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Bob Hoffnar wrote:
". . . a bunch of clanking with mushy pedals."
Bob, when did you play my Pro II ?
Craig
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"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Chris Harvey
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2014 11:48 pm
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| I have Biller's old Fingertip and let me tell you the tone is definitely there, but with mechanical shortcomings that need to be learned to dance with. My roundfront Pro II has the best mechanically Sho-Bud had to offer IMHO (barrels /2 hole pullers with the larger cabinet and aluminum hardware - no pot metal. Then again I have a Pro II Custom that kicks butt. |
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Jim Hoke
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2014 7:54 pm
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| Rittenberry. The string spacing is the same too. Very big beautiful tone. Very Bud-like. |
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